Willie Mays: to or not to say hey?

[byrone]

Does anyone know why Mays is often so difficult? Has he actually given a reason for his contempt? Was he always difficult?

[ScottR81]

Originally Posted by byrone

Does anyone know why Mays is often so difficult? Has he actually given a reason for his contempt? Was he always difficult?

Only thing I image is put yourself in his shoes.

You have to meet and sign for how many people (strangers) to make money to support your life style which he probably didnt think he'd live this long.

Plus your one of the greatest baseball players ever and now bench players of today make 10X the amount he did in his era.

I'd be pretty piss too.

[travrosty]

thats not an excuse, then why isnt ernie banks tee'd off then?

mays is making tens of thousands of dollars per appearance to sign his name. thats a sweet gig. babe ruth never got to do that. babe ruth should have been mad. he signed for free all of those years. Musial is still alive and he got less than mays, he should REALLY be mad then.

mays is shooting himself in the foot by being a grouch. he could make more money if he were nice. he would get more gigs, more money. he could get endorsements. i dont know any product that has him as an endorser, why would anybody? joe dimaggio was mister coffee. joe wasnt brooks robinson at the signing table , but he wasnt willie mays either. mays definitely is the benchmark when it comes to bad attitude.

he can make a decent living signing his name. whats not to like about that?

[Brendan]

Originally Posted by travrosty

thats not an excuse, then why isnt ernie banks tee'd off then?

mays is making tens of thousands of dollars per appearance to sign his name. thats a sweet gig. babe ruth never got to do that. babe ruth should have been mad. he signed for free all of those years.

But Ruth made more money than the president. *GASP*

No matter how much of a jerk Mays is, Cepeda is worse.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by Brendan

But Ruth made more money than the president. *GASP*

No matter how much of a jerk Mays is, Cepeda is worse.

Must be a Giants thang...

[Brendan]

Originally Posted by Scott Garner

Must be a Giants thang...

If there is it actually kind of makes sense.

[Cooptown]

I have two Mays stories I can share:

In 2008, I decided to pay for Mays' IP signature at Mickey's Place in Cooperstown. His price in Cooperstown was always considerably cheaper, cash only, and supposedly went to a charity. In 2007 the price was $100, and I decided to pass. In 2008, I decided to plunk down the money, although it did go up to $125. I was collecting HOF baseballs at the time, so I was in line to get a baseball signed (sidestory: I knew I could pick up a signed Mays baseball cheaper than $125, but I honestly wanted to meet the legend in person. I had heard horror stories of him IP, but I still wanted to be able to say that I had met Mays one day).

So I am in line, and turns out that he was only signing baseballs with sharpie....not something I was interested in. I got out of line, and purchased a Willie Mays "the catch" 8x10. Again, I knew I could get one of these cheaper than $125. I wound up getting it framed and it hangs very nicely in my office, but in hindsight I kind of wish I had gone with a vintage card. And I have since done a very nice multisigned HOF piece I would have liked to have added him to (which are another subset of Mays horror stories-multisigned pieces). I digress.

A guy about 10 people in front of me had a TON of items to sign. Must have been at least 10; jerseys, bats, balls, etc. I hope he was doing a consignment...or that he had a lot of money. Another gentleman in front of me had a Mays model glove. He had purchased an equipment ticket, but Mays would not sign it. Mays does not sign game used items, and Mays claims that this was a game used item. The guy who had the glove was claiming that it was his childhood glove from when he was growing up. The scene was pretty comical. I am pretty sure that the guy who had the glove is either a poster here or on the PSA boards, as I am pretty sure I have seen this story retold on a message board.

I got up there with my 8x10, and said "It's a pleasure to meet you, Mr. Mays". I had graphed IP for years growing up, and can say the only two people I have ever been nervous in front of were Mays and Ted Williams. When I said that, he didnt even ackowlege me, and I was thinking "here we go....". He then signed my 8x10, and put it extremely close to his eyes....within an inch or two. He then said "I am just checking to make sure I signed it ok, as if I didnt, I was going to sign another one for you." which I thought was incredibly cool. In hindsight, I kind of wish he had screwed it up, as then I might have been able to get two autos out of it, had I been able to keep the one that was messed up. So that's my story of meeting him in person the one and only time. I found it to be a good experience given his history.

My second story involves a guy I know, who volunteered at the Hall of Fame every induction weekend. In fact, his job is every one of our dream jobs. The HOF would give him 8 dozen baseballs, and he would set up shop at the Otesaga Hotel and have every HOFer sign each ball. At the end of the weekend, each HOFer would receive one of the baseballs as a keepsake. I asked him if he was able to keep one every year and he said "oh yeah!" and then I asked if he was able to bring other things in to get signed himself and he said yes. I have never seen his collection in person, but apparently he has quite a collection, as he got a really good rapport with these players (and sometimes wives and families) throughout the years. He has great stories, both good and bad, from HOFers. He says he really loved "the old timers", guys like Pee Wee Reese, and Billy Herman, who he claims were real gentleman.

Apparently Mays would always be difficult about signing the baseballs. This guy would set up shop in the lobby of the hotel, and Mays said "bring them up to my room and I will sign them". So this guy carts all these baseballs up to his room, and Mays says "leave them there and I will sign them." This guy wasnt leaving all of these baseballs, which already had a ton of HOF signatures on them, in Mays room. So apparently they went back and forth on it, and the guy leaves with the baseballs without Mays signing them. I asked if he "got in trouble" for having everyone's signature but Mays on them that year, but he said "No, the guy I was working for knew how Mays was."

Two other quick stories about this:

In 1988 (Stargell's induction year), he said that he knew things were changing. Dick Gordon was in the hotel and said "I am not sure if my client is going to sign those next year"-his client being Yaz. This guy explained that this is a long standing tradition, the guys getting inducted that year were always the highlight of the ball, etc. In 1989 he was expecting Bench to be incredibly accomodating (based upon seeing him on TV), and Yaz to be incedibly difficult based on his agent. He said it couldnt have been any more different, as Yaz was great and Bench was consisently a jerk year after year.

The other story involves (shocker) Tom Seaver. He said out of the 8 dozen or so baseballs he would have, each HOFer would sit down and sign them all at once. With the exception of Seaver. Seaver would do a couple of dozen at a time, and this guy is convinced that Seaver did this to make his guy's job harder, as he would have to always track which stack of balls had Seaver's signature, and which one didn't.

Sorry for the long post.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Brendan

But Ruth made more money than the president. *GASP*

The story goes that someone asked Ruth what he thought of making more than the President of the United States.

His response "I had a better year than he did."

[CarltonHendricks]

I’ve been a hotel bellman at a golf resort 23 years. It was probably about 12 years ago I escorted Mays to his room. Most of what I’ve read here essentially rings true except my perspective is a little different.

As I recall it had been a busy day and I was just at the right place at the right time. I came back from a check in and it was about dusk…I spotted what looked like Mays and another older black gentleman standing on the front porch of the mansion with key packet in hand. I say what looked like, since in my mind I had a much younger mental picture of him from the 1960’s…Sure enough as I walked closer I could see it was him…

The rooms where I work are spread out in four sections over 1,200 acres….so once the guests check in and get their key they drive to it following a bellman. He was in the section closest to the mansion and main hub of the property. He followed me in his car as I led him in one of our electric bell carts to the parking lot.

As I recall he seemed a little gruff when I spoke with him initially…but then when we got to the parking lot and I gestured where to park I got the full Willie experience…Normally when you point out a parking place for the guest to park 98 times out of a 100 the guest follows your lead and parks where you tell them….not Willie Mays…completely ignored me and parked 30 feet past where I said…I knew right then it was Willie’s world and there was only one way to handle him….his way!

Naturally, as a professional I had no problem with it…It’s my job to be accommodating for every kind of personality and temperament…Really, for me, handling someone like Mays is a piece of cake….you just give’um what they want…and that’s always my policy anyway so it was easy.

Naturally Willie didn’t want to ride in the cart to the room like all the other guests…he wanted to walk…no problem there….I can inch along beside him in the cart with his luggage….no matter how silly it seems…with a smile on my face and a yes sir right this way…as a bellman gruff means almost nothing to me…I actually see it as an opportunity….find out what the problem is, fix it, get a bigger tip…it’s pretty simple.

So I got him moved in and gave him a quick Readers Digest version of the property…he flipped me a twenty and I was out’a there…Willie wasn’t the usual kind of guest you chit chat with about they’re vacation and where they’re from…just the quick basics and thank you sir!...the thought of an autograph didn’t even cross my mind...it was out of the question, you could just tell!

Personally, what did I think of him?...If he’s such a jerk why’d he flip me twenty? I think he’s private and very independent…and probably touchy…which I could understand…you’re one person against a world of strangers always trying to get something from you…a smile, a handshake, an autograph, a conversation…that’s gotta get old…. but genuinely mean? I didn’t pick up on that.

You should’a seen the time I checked in Montana….when he talks to you it’s like he’s talking thru you…and I doubt he’s even conscious of it…From what I’ve seen the bigger the name, the more they’re like that…every time you stop for gas, every time you go to a store…everybody’s looking at you, trying to talk to you…I think after a short time you just go like Joe…on automatic…when he spoke to me it seemed a little like everything was canned, like a pat answer. Very polite and nice really, but kind of like he didn’t really see me.

Once I was at a card show in San Francisco…I was on a pay phone when he walked by on his way leaving…he was surrounded by security, him in the center…There weren’t that many people around and as he walked by some yahoo yells …”Hey Montana” in a rude mocking way…To me the guy was out of line obnoxious…but even though he was only ten feet away it was like Montana didn’t even hear him…Obviously they tune it out.

We’re getting way off the Willie subject but I’ll finish up…I had a little lag time with Joe and Jennifer with them in their room because I had to get them a different room. They had their two or three rambunctious little kids with them who had already knocked over the fireplace tools before I’d set down one piece of luggage LOL…The driving range was right out their back door and smart mom Jennifer was afraid they’d get out onto it so I had to get them another room…LOL I remember when I told him I got a different room but it was more secluded on the back side of the property…I’ll never forget his reaction to the word secluded…he lit up…yeah that sounds good he said LOL…

I did however, get Joe to open up just a little….I was standing there making small talk as I waited for the front desk to call back with another room…there was a Tri-Star card show coming up that weekend and I mentioned I was going to it….He goes…”Oh yeah I think Roger said he’s going to that” (Roger Craig, as a signer of course…not like us civilian slobs)…So anyway, then I asked him if he collects…I think he said a little…but I definitely remember he said he was going to be trading some of his stuff with, I’m pretty sure it was Mike Tyson, or whoever was champion then….so that was pretty cool to cough that out of him!

I remember one time Montana was there for some benefit, cerebral palsy dinner or something…and there were people hanging around the front porch waiting for him to come out…Later after the event let out I was doing the doorman thing at the front door and I saw him coming from the lobby trying to leave…people were clamoring around him for autographs…I could just tell he’d had enough…I told him we have your car up front sir…smile about used up, he goes, where’s my keys?...and the look on his face was, man get me out’a here!...There was no getting his door, he just grabbed the keys jetted for his car and left!

So anyway, there’s a little of my close up observations of why celebs might be a little different…I apologize if it was too off the Willie focus….I start writing and rambling.

[travrosty]

yeah, they get stopped a lot, but they don't have any problem taking the money for all the signing events they go to. he could move to alaska, or do through the mail or private signings only, but he doesnt do that? why does he put himself through it if he doesnt like it? $$$$$$.


Muhammad Ali signed more autographs than any human being in history, never turned anybody down, he signed and handed out way more for free than he ever signed for money. in the signing line, ali was very accomodating, signing cassius clay when asked, even when the handlers told people not to ask him to sign cassius, he still did anyway. He couldnt turn down a free autograph request.

Why was Ali in such a good mood, and mays not? Ali never made the insane money per fight like 20 or 25 million bucks per fight, he'd be making 50 million if he were fighting today). i dont think he is bitter. Ali went basically broke after his fighting career, used autographs to make some money, but didnt seem bitter about it.

i know michael jordan once said that people want to be in his shoes for a day, but try it for a year, or a lifetime? i just wish mays realizes what an incredible position he is in to make so much money by signing his name that the fan deserves better treatment than they are getting. they are paying his salary. its just an autograph salary now and not a baseball one.

[Big Six]

Originally Posted by ScottR81

Only thing I image is put yourself in his shoes.

You have to meet and sign for how many people (strangers) to make money to support your life style which he probably didnt think he'd live this long.

Plus your one of the greatest baseball players ever and now bench players of today make 10X the amount he did in his era.

I'd be pretty piss too.

The story I always heard was that he didn't understand why Mantle was always the toast of NYC centerfielders...he seems bent that Mantle has become this beloved icon (drinking problems and unfillfilled potential notwithstanding) compared to Mays, who many consider the greatest all-around player of all time...in short, simple jealousy.