Johnny Damon -HOF?

[MVSNYC]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

Damon's played long enough and has been healty throughout his entire career so the #'s are falling into place.
During Saturdays game of the week Damon hit a triple and McCarver pointed out that Damon & Babe Ruth are tied at 506 doubles each.
They also said that Damon and just 10 other players in MLB history have over 2500 hits, 200 Home Runs, 100 Triples & 500 Doubles.
But he needs the 3000 hits to be a Hall Of Famer.
Wonder what cap he will represent KC, Oak, Boston, NY, Detroit or Tampa?

Hi Jay!

to tack on to what you mentioned above, McCarver also said during that broadcast, that if HE was tied with Ruth at 506 doubles, he'd do what he could to NOT get any more doubles (either pull up at a single or push for 3), so he could tell his grandkids that he was TIED with Babe Ruth...i thought that was such a ridiculous comment by McCarver. if anything, i'd rather tell my grandkids that i PASSED Babe Ruth in doubles. i laughed outloud when he said that, what a stupid comment.

[Frank A]

I think with 3000 he should be in. Whether he gets in or not he is one hell of a nice guy.

[iwantitiwinit]

Damon is an intriguing player/person. He leaves the Yankees who at the time thought he was virtually done and was asking for too much $. He also loses a boat load of his personal wealth in the 2008 market crash and as a result needs to really sell a team on his ability, which he somehow manages to do. The real question I guess is whether he can get to 3000 or not because if he does in my opinion he's in. I actually saw him play a few nights ago and he still has his legs. After this year I think he will have to play 3 more years to do it because I don't think he gets it in 2. I think he is going to end up with 2905. As a result I don't think he will get in.

[ctownboy]

If Damon played his entire career in Kansas City or started in KC and then went to Pittsburgh, Houston and finished in Seattle, NOBODY would think he was a Hall of Fame player even if he got to 3000 Hits.

However, since he played for BOTH the Red Sox and the Yankees (and was on the 2004 Sox team that finally won a World Series) he will be a shoe-in if he gets 3000 Hits.

ESPN will make sure of that....

[mr2686]

I think it's a little premature to talk about Damon for the HOF. It WILL take him 3 years to get 3000 if healthy, and a lot could happen. My opinion, if he gets it he's probably in, but I'm not sure anyone will want him after this year or maybe next as his productivity is declining.

[Robextend]

I always thought Raines was better than Damon, therefore more HOF worthy...but IMO neither should get in. With that said, if he gets 3k hits it will be tough to keep him out.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by ctownboy

If Damon played his entire career in Kansas City or started in KC and then went to Pittsburgh, Houston and finished in Seattle, NOBODY would think he was a Hall of Fame player even if he got to 3000 Hits.

However, since he played for BOTH the Red Sox and the Yankees (and was on the 2004 Sox team that finally won a World Series) he will be a shoe-in if he gets 3000 Hits.

ESPN will make sure of that....

Well, we'll see whether or not Damon gets in and Biggio doesn't to see if that opinion holds up.

As it is, I see no precedent in history that supports that argument.

What other 3000 hit guy (not connected to PED's/Gambling), has been denied entry to the Hall?........assuming Damon gets there, which is not a lock, as already stated.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Biggio -- 7 all star teams. Damon -- 2. Damon is the answer, I believe, to an interesting trivia question -- name the only player with 600 hits for three different teams.

[sox1903wschamp]

I don't know about the Hall but he never learned to bunt. For someone with speed, I was appalled that he could not lay down a bunt. The straw that broke the camel's back for me was the 2004 ALCS against NYY. Game 4 or 5, extra innings, situation was ripe for a bunt and he looked like an infant attempting to lay one down. I am amazed sometimes at pro's in this day that never attempt to learn the finer points of the game.

End of rant

[packs]

I don't think he's a HOFer at all. He's a compiler like Biggio, Niekro, and Sutton. If he gets to 3000 he'll get in, but not before.

I'd like to see Larry Walker and Bobby Abreu get in before a player like Damon does.

[pclpads]

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

Hi Jay!

to tack on to what you mentioned above, McCarver also said during that broadcast, that if HE was tied with Ruth at 506 doubles, he'd do what he could to NOT get any more doubles (either pull up at a single or push for 3), so he could tell his grandkids that he was TIED with Babe Ruth...i thought that was such a ridiculous comment by McCarver. if anything, i'd rather tell my grandkids that i PASSED Babe Ruth in doubles. i laughed outloud when he said that, what a stupid comment.

Well, consider the source . . . If Timbo hadn't said it first, odds are his conjoined twin in the booth would have!

[ctownboy]

D.Bergin,

If you go to www.fangraphs.com and search Johnny Damon, you will find an article concerning Damon and the Hall of Fame. It was written on July 11, 2011.

The short and sweet of it is, based on WAR, Damon is NOT a Hall of Famer even if he gets to 3000 Hits.

Another article by a different writer points out that Damon hasn't even been the best player on his own teams even when he had a big year.

So, again, if Damon gets into the Hall of Fame it will be because he played for the Red Sox and Yankees whereas other players who had similar or better careers, based on WAR and other stats, don't get in.

David

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by ctownboy

D.Bergin,

If you go to www.fangraphs.com and search Johnny Damon, you will find an article concerning Damon and the Hall of Fame. It was written on July 11, 2011.

The short and sweet of it is, based on WAR, Damon is NOT a Hall of Famer even if he gets to 3000 Hits.

Another article by a different writer points out that Damon hasn't even been the best player on his own teams even when he had a big year.

So, again, if Damon gets into the Hall of Fame it will be because he played for the Red Sox and Yankees whereas other players who had similar or better careers, based on WAR and other stats, don't get in.

David

When have they ever put guys in the HOF based on "WAR"?

Am I wrong in saying there's probably tons of guys in there already who don't meet the criteria based on "WAR"?

I haven't read the article, but am I also right in saying he doesn't meet the statistical criteria based on "average".....which means there's a bottom half of players in the HOF, to create that average?

All I'm really saying is 3000 hits has always been a magic number for players without additional baggage (gambling/PED's), no matter which teams you played for.

Not saying I would vote for him.......but I wouldn't exactly be outraged.

Hell, I'd put guys who haven't even had a sniff at the HOF, like Lou Whitaker and Alan Trammell in, before I'd put Damon in...........but I hold no ill will towards players who are lucky enough to be enshrined, "borderline" or not.

It's just a number yeah, but those type of milestones do count for something, over-rated or not.

[ctownboy]

D.Bergin,

Whether you like it or not, baseball is moving more towards stats like WAR. So, if Damon plays another three years and gets to 3000 Hits and then has the five year waiting period, WAR is mostly likely going to be even more established than it is now so milestone stats aren't going to count as much as they used to.

Also, as one of the articles pointed out, no matter what team Damon played on, his big year was always outdone by one if not two other players on his team. So his peak years weren't even good enough to make him the best player on his own team let alone a league or the entire Majors.

Finally, in one of the articles, the author was stating his case that, based on WAR, Trammell and Whitaker BOTH have a better HOF case than Damon even if Damon reaches 3000 Hits.

Don't get me wrong, I like Damon as a player but I don't think of him as a Hall of Fame player. Yet, I really feel that he will go in because he played for both the Red Sox and Yankees whereas a statistically similar player probably wouldn't get in if they didn't play for either or both of those teams.

David

[Tabe]

It honestly boggles my mind that there's even a discussion about Damon as a HOF'er. The guy is clearly NOT one. He's a noodle-armed mediocre outfielder who hit under .290 with a bit of pop who stole some bases. Big deal. He's a 2-time All-Star who has never even cracked the top 10 in MVP voting. Has he ever even been the best player on his own team? Was there ever a time where people discussed elite players and Johnny Damon's name came up? The answer to both questions is no.

IMHO, not only is Damon not a HOF'er, he's not even close.

Tabe

[Ladder7]

*YES!




*But, Only in this room;