What is a T206 Wet Sheet Transfer???

[Blunder19]

has anyone seen a transfer like this? With the name making it onto the back? I have never seen one of these before this card... wondering if there are others out there like it..

[steve B]

I love that scrapbook paper! I've got to think it transfered over time, or because of the glue used.

To cover a few points raised.

Leon- the Meusel with the complete transfer of the front is probably a transfer. For me a tough call being black ink, but it's a strong enough transfer I'd say yes.

I didn't mean to say that all black transfers happened after production, just that I've become less enthused by them after having a black stamp printed in the 1880's leave a pretty solid transfer on another in the mail between England and here.

Mrvster - I don't quite get what you're calling me out on.

Anyway, any printing error/variation/anomaly absolutely should be taken card by card. And that examinaton should be done with an understanding of the printing process and materials used. And unless you specialize that means understanding multiple processes. Leons Meusel was probably not lithographed. I'd have to see it or another from the same set to be sure, but one of the typography processes would be a safe bet. The black mark on the left is the initial clue.

The Chance is very impressive, and obviously all factory. It's a wonderful example of a card from a sheet used to make the initial adjustments to the press.

For each color pass the plate for that color needs to be put into place, and a few sheets run to adjust the alignment of the plate and registration with other colors or other sides and to make sure the ink and water are flowing evenly. As you can see from the Chance and Leons multi back, they'll use up just about any sheet of the right size and weight paper. So the Chance is most likely among the first 5-10 cycle backs printed. And I could probably make a good argument for it being from the first sheet.

I've collected printing errors in general since roughly 1980, most of the ones I have are more modern as I've always been on a tight budget. I've found examples of nearly all the problems that can happen in production. There's a few I haven't been able to buy (1972 topps printed with the back on the front and front on the back of the cardboard) And a few that I haven't seen an example of. And I'm always learning new things and adjusting my thoughts on some others.

And I'll show you a real puzzler. I think the price is a bit high, but this Cobb has a red transfer from something. The odd thing is I've looked through the gallery and can't find a T206 that matches the red shadow. Scrap? Transfer from some other set? transfer from an unlisted card?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

I'll start the experiments on the beater. First up, just plain pressure. I can get to probably a couple tons in the home shop, maybe a touch more. For much more than that I'd have to call in a favor from one oft he shops I know. After that Alcohol, then solvents.

Steve B

[Anthony S.]

Originally Posted by steve B

Mrvster - I don't quite get what you're calling me out on.
Steve B

Johnny was calling out the other Steve because he thought that he had ended a desirable Ebay auction early (The Gilbert ghost card). But it turned out that Ebay (not Steve) had pulled the auction because all decisions at Ebay are made by a 6 month old Golden Retriever named Binky.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Anthony S.

Johnny was calling out the other Steve because he thought that he had ended a desirable Ebay auction early (The Gilbert ghost card). But it turned out that Ebay (not Steve) had pulled the auction because all decisions at Ebay are made by a 6 month old Golden Retriever named Binky.

Thanks Anthony. Confusion gone.

Steve B

[Ladder7]

Yea Steve B,

Johnny mrvster was upset because I stole his girlfriend, crashed his car or kicked his cat... No, umm it was because I wouldnt sell him a baseball card. Knew it was something big.

[brianp-beme]

I have seen quite a few 1933 Goudeys like the one Iggy shows in a prior post...always in red. Is it possible they are 'bleed throughs' instead of wet sheet transfers? Perhaps the red ink used permeated the cards more successfully than the other colors used. I also have a 33 Goudey of High that looks exactly the same.

Brian

[mrvster]

STEVE B!!
YOU ARE NEEDED !! WE NEED YOU EXPERTISE!! i would never call you out....Steve (ladder), you know popa wants Gilbert, i just feel like i have been teased to much with it i feel as if i was led to the bedroom, then kicked out the window i have tried to negotiate, but your just jerking everyones chain....

why didn't u relist the card, with a better scan, and let the market determine the value???if ebay dumped it, why didn't you change the discription???? why didn't you relist it....????HMMMMMMMMMMM


DID U DECIDE TO KEEP IT???
you might as well at this point...


selling a multiple 1000 card , why was your listing so cheesey??

btw ladder, i am poor, i don't like pets...my girlfriend left me, and i walk to work

STEVE B:

not u at all w you, we need your expetise!!thanx for the chance comment, it's one of my favorite cards......there are "transfers" that happened undoubtably after production(signs will be there like some of the ones posted, "burnt border", "blurry , "askew transfers" you can tell which s which even by scans...the tougher ones need to be observed in person....you can tell in person , it is a card, by card basis....bleed throughs never occured!! inmo....


i eat and crap these freaks.....after a while, you can pick a needle out of a haystack....

Anthony S , u rock!!


Jamie B- .....i have seen the name transfer very rarely....always thoght the name/team des. was printed last....your card is interesting....looks good from scan, have 2 see it in person....


Respectfully,


John Vanderbeck

[Leon]

Originally Posted by steve B

Leon- the Meusel with the complete transfer of the front is probably a transfer. For me a tough call being black ink, but it's a strong enough transfer I'd say yes.

I didn't mean to say that all black transfers happened after production, just that I've become less enthused by them after having a black stamp printed in the 1880's leave a pretty solid transfer on another in the mail between England and here.


Steve B

Thanks Steve....as you can see (but you really have to look), there is faint printing of a back, on the front, right around his name. What do you make of that? And we all really do appreciate your expertise and your sharing of knowledge. best regards

[steve B]

Interesting. Usually there's enough time between printing fronts and backs that that wouldn't be common. It would make me think it all happened in production, especially if they ran heavy on the ink. Another indication that it was one of the more typograpghed printing formats. I'm less familiar with those, enough to tell the difference between some types and to tell typography apart from lithography and engraving. It doesn't matter much for cards but with stamps it can be a very big difference. (On one particular one it's a difference between flat plate engraving and rotary press engraving. Less than a millimeter, and the difference is between another stamp for the junk box and paying off the house)

Steve B

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by steve B

And I'll show you a real puzzler. I think the price is a bit high, but this Cobb has a red transfer from something. The odd thing is I've looked through the gallery and can't find a T206 that matches the red shadow. Scrap? Transfer from some other set? transfer from an unlisted card?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Steve B

Hi Steve - Am I missing something on this Cobb? The only differences in the red on the card appear to be caused by the plastic the Cobb was scanned in. The areas where the plastic is setting well off the card look faded or milky and areas where the plastic is flush with the card the color is bolder. The same effects can be seen on the reverse and on the blue background outside the card. Again I could be missing what you're seeing entirely.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Abravefan11

Hi Steve - Am I missing something on this Cobb? The only differences in the red on the card appear to be caused by the plastic the Cobb was scanned in. The areas where the plastic is setting well off the card look faded or milky and areas where the plastic is flush with the card the color is bolder. The same effects can be seen on the reverse and on the blue background outside the card. Again I could be missing what you're seeing entirely.

If you look at the border of the front most of the top border and the side border to about 1/4 of the way down from the top have a light shading of red. the place where it ends at the left of the top border lines up with a darker area that extends most of the way down the card. I'd thought it was the plastic for a bit, but the light red in the border didn't make sense if it was just that. Of course, the dark area extends farther, so maybe it's a shade of the Cobb background that I'm not seeing properly because of distortion from the plastic? Puzzling, but too expensive for me to satisfy my curiosity.

Steve B

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Blunder19

has anyone seen a transfer like this? With the name making it onto the back? I have never seen one of these before this card... wondering if there are others out there...

Yes. I had a Schreck with Hayden's name on the bottom of the back. Tried to sell it for a premium, but never got a taker, so I just sold it at a standard price.

[tedzan]

That SOVEREIGN 460 is a tough card of Chase. And, the EL PRINCIPE de GALE overprint is a really cool wet sheet transfer.

Thanks for sharing this card with us.

TED Z

[iggyman]

Not to take anything away from these posts, but since I didn't want to start a new thread..................Did most of you notice this ebay T206 Gabby Street??? Two young ebayers seemed to really want it. Yikes! My snipe was blown out of the water.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=160623760633

t206 Gabby Smith001.jpg

Lovely Day...

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by tedzan

That SOVEREIGN 460 is a tough card of Chase. And, the EL PRINCIPE de GALE overprint is a really cool wet sheet transfer.

Thanks for sharing this card with us.

TED Z

Thanks Ted Z.

I know this is a pretty tough front/back combination, and feel pretty lucky to have it.

Sincerely, Clayton