Anyone You Trade With Leave You Feeling Not So Fresh?

[hangman62]

Im a long time collector and trader..had a run in with a guy recently over a trade proposal.
We were considering trading 30s DiamondStars high#s ( prety tough cards)
He insisted that because I got a good deal on ebay and picked one up cheap in the past..that I shouldnt grade and value the card per book for trade purposes..simply trade the card to him for what i payed. I tried to explain how it doesnt matter what a guy payed for a card..if your trading..you need a guide both sides agree to..No....... he wanted to trade based on "what we payed for cards" ?

[Exhibitman]

Hangman, you've touched upon the issue that set me off initially to write the opening post, the "you should sell it to me on the cheap because you didn't pay much for it" argument. In other words, I am supposed to give you my profit on a good deal. The variant on that cost question that I was thinking of is the unsolicited offer for a rare item I don't even have for sale that not only demands that I agree to sell it but also that I assign a monetary value to it rather than the offeror starting with a price or asking me what I will take. In other words, asking me to bid against myself rather than stepping up and making an offer for the item. I really hate that technique and I usually respond to it either with a flat-out rejection or with a demand that is 10x what I think it is "worth." Then, of course, they come back with all sorts of arguments for why the item isn't worth what I demanded and I usually end up telling them to go find it somewhere else for that price. It seems logical to me that anyone making an unsolicited request for a collector to sell an item that is rare and isn't for sale would understand that there should be an offer made that had better knock my socks off, or not even bother.

I watch Pawn Stars with my daughter and I try to use it to discuss negotiating techniques with her. One of the things I tell her is never to give your opponent information that can be used against you--like answering a cost basis question from an opponent or volunteering that the item cost a certain amount, or assigning a value to it. Whenever some rube tells Rick that he paid ten bucks for the item at a garage sale, you know he's going to get low-balled in the negotiation. The correct answer is "what I paid and what I value it at are irrelevant to the discussion of what it is worth to you on resale."

[Leon]

My standard answer when anyone asks what I paid for something is, $1. It doesn't matter what it is.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Leon

My standard answer when anyone asks what I paid for something is, $1. It doesn't matter what it is.

I like to throw around the phrase "it grows on trees in my backyard" quite a bit.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I watch Pawn Stars with my daughter and I try to use it to discuss negotiating techniques with her. One of the things I tell her is never to give your opponent information that can be used against you--like answering a cost basis question from an opponent or volunteering that the item cost a certain amount, or assigning a value to it. Whenever some rube tells Rick that he paid ten bucks for the item at a garage sale, you know he's going to get low-balled in the negotiation. The correct answer is "what I paid and what I value it at are irrelevant to the discussion of what it is worth to you on resale."

The Pawn stars give their "opponent" information all the time by calling in "experts" and letting the expert tell them what it's worth right in front of the seller. I doubt they ever do this when the cameras aren't rolling.

[Exhibitman]

Yes but how reliable are they? I know that the times they've been offered entertainment stuff I am familiar with the appraisers were low. Plus, they rarely step up and pay anywhere close to the valuation anyway, so it is all funny money from their perspective since the seller will never see more than a fraction of it.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Yes but how reliable are they? I know that the times they've been offered entertainment stuff I am familiar with the appraisers were low. Plus, they rarely step up and pay anywhere close to the valuation anyway, so it is all funny money from their perspective since the seller will never see more than a fraction of it.

I hear ya', but it's funny to see the interview before the person goes in where they are hoping to get $200 and then the expert tells them it's worth $20,000 and they leave with $10,000 when all they wanted was $200.

[kcohen]

For me, a major issue I have with the "what did you pay for it" element of valuation carries a presupposition that my time is worthless. In other words, if I got a great deal on an item, it is normally in part because of the time I've spent acquiring knowledge, cultivating contacts, bird dogging items, going to auctions, negotiating, etc. There is also the element of risk assumed by putting up the money for items for which there is no guarantee of being able to sell.

I used to tell friends who buy from me what I paid for something. But I do this no more as they would always take that figure and work from there instead of using the market or book value as a basis and then working down. Lesson learned. That said, I do pass on the benefit of a good deal on an acquisition to friends and people who buy from me regularly. But then, I don't buy and sell cards for a living, thankfully.

[Bosox Blair]

Allow me to present another thought. What the seller recently paid for a card is relevant to what the market value is...especially if the price was achieved in the open market (ie. at auction).

If the seller won a recent auction with active bidding, the price paid is certainly an important data point in determining market value (price guides...pretty much useless).

Another way to put this is don't expect to buy items at auction and then flip them for more because the "value" is higher than you paid. Says who?

On the other hand, if the seller recently got the item at a "dealer's discount" at a show, or in a large lot of other items, I find it more likely he could expect profit.

Cheers,
Blair

[E93]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Yes but how reliable are they? I know that the times they've been offered entertainment stuff I am familiar with the appraisers were low. Plus, they rarely step up and pay anywhere close to the valuation anyway, so it is all funny money from their perspective since the seller will never see more than a fraction of it.

I'm sure they have standing arrangements with appraisers to low-ball by X%. For those who are in business the quoted retail number may actually be what they are willing to pay Rick if he gets it. Who knows?
JimB

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I watch Pawn Stars with my daughter and I try to use it to discuss negotiating techniques with her. One of the things I tell her is never to give your opponent information that can be used against you--like answering a cost basis question from an opponent or volunteering that the item cost a certain amount, or assigning a value to it. Whenever some rube tells Rick that he paid ten bucks for the item at a garage sale, you know he's going to get low-balled in the negotiation. The correct answer is "what I paid and what I value it at are irrelevant to the discussion of what it is worth to you on resale."

You hit the nail right on the head with that one, Adam! From a sheer business perspective, Rick really knows his stuff--if he makes 1,000 deals and saves $100 on each one, he figures he's ultimately made $100,000 thereon.

Best regards to the most knowledgeable Exhibits guy I know.

Larry