This sums it up about Jeter and 3000

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

Leakage? I hope most of these guys have not gotten so jaded or insular that they regard each gratis autograph they give to be potential lost revenue.

Of course they haven't. But when dealers send kids into line to get free autographs that they can sell, that would be part of the issue.

[Exhibitman]

I don't think the people who are put off by the situation with Jeter are saying that they should get something for nothing or that athletes owe them something for free. I think their comments reflect a growing frustration with the attitude that is prevalent in our culture, which is take all you can grab in every context at all times, give nothing back, and damn everyone else. I don't think it is wrong for Jeter (or anyone else) to charge for autographs at a show, through mail order, etc.--it is a service rendered and if it is overpriced or unwanted, don't buy it--but I do think it is wrong when the prevalent view among athletes becomes that an unpaid autograph is something to be frowned upon, wheither you call it a freebie, brand dilution, leakage, etc. It is called "public relations" and at the right time and place is part of being in the entertainment industry. As a public person/celebrity who earns millions trading on the goodwill of the public as a product endorser, one of the things Jeter accepts as part of the deal is the duty [yes, it is a duty] to do right by the people who support him. I find it appalling when a ballplayer refuses to sign for a fan (unless the situation is very, very inappropriate, like in a bathroom), especially when the justification is that the fan might sell the item. If an athlete makes millions playing baseball and endorsing products that he expects kids to purchase based on his endorsements, guess what, the athletes is a role model and with that privilege comes responsibility. One of the reasons I have gone from a rabid fan who had season tickets to a person who rarely watches the game and never attends is the attitude towards the fans exhibited by players and management. Not wanting to be taken advantage of goes both ways.

Some athletes and celebrities get it. Around 1978 I was at brunch in Woodland Hills with my family and Steve Garvey and his family were in the restaurant too. At that time Garvey was the golden boy in LA; MVP/All Star, pennant winning teams, etc. A line of kids stacked up at his table. He said hello to each kid who had the nerve to approach him and signed for each one of them when he could easily have said no. I hated the Dodgers at the time (Yankees fan) and wasn't even interested in meeting him but I appreciated the effort he made. Manny Pacquiao, who has way more of a worldwide fan base than Jeter or any other US baseball player, is a willing and gracious signer. Muhammad Ali, certainly a bigger celebrity than any ballplayer, signed willingly and happily for fans before he became too ill to accommodate publicly. Even celebs are better at it than most ballplayers. I ran into Sylvester Stallone a few times around LA and every time he was courteous and signed for the fans who approached him. Anyone recall seeing George Clooney at the Oscars a few years ago cross Hollywood Blvd. to sign autographs for fans behind the barricades?

Don't get me wrong; I don't expect our heroes to be saints (unless they are saints, of course). There have always been great signers and bad signers; goes with personality. But don't tell me that taking two seconds to sign an autograph for a fan isn't part of the business. Jeter or anyone else isn't too big and too important to do the right thing, especially when they put themselves out there as role models and endorsers and are enriched by our good will. Babe Ruth is beloved not just because he was a great player but because of the way he treated his fans. In The Glory of Their Times Jimmy Austin described seeing Ruth sign for fans for hours on end, for nothing. My father still fondly recalls Babe Ruth nodding hello to him on Park Avenue in NYC when he was a kid.

[Gary Dunaier]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I don't think it is wrong for Jeter (or anyone else) to charge for autographs at a show, through mail order, etc.--it is a service rendered and if it is overpriced or unwanted, don't buy it--but I do think it is wrong when the prevalent view among athletes becomes that an unpaid autograph is something to be frowned upon, wheither you call it a freebie, brand dilution, leakage, etc. It is called "public relations" and at the right time and place is part of being in the entertainment industry.

As a public person/celebrity who earns millions trading on the goodwill of the public as a product endorser, one of the things Jeter accepts as part of the deal is the duty [yes, it is a duty] to do right by the people who support him. I find it appalling when a ballplayer refuses to sign for a fan (unless the situation is very, very inappropriate, like in a bathroom), especially when the justification is that the fan might sell the item.

If an athlete makes millions playing baseball and endorsing products that he expects kids to purchase based on his endorsements, guess what, the athletes is a role model and with that privilege comes responsibility. One of the reasons I have gone from a rabid fan who had season tickets to a person who rarely watches the game and never attends is the attitude towards the fans exhibited by players and management.

Not wanting to be taken advantage of goes both ways.

I agree with you a million percent.

[Vintagedegu]

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[T206Collector]

I understand your concerns, but to hate the game as a business today, when it has been a business since 1869, in my view, is an oversimplification. So much of your gut feeling on this was expressed by fans in 1869. But people continued to love the game, and support it as wholesome entertainment, when it has been a money-driven industry for nearly 150 years.

My appreciation for the history of the game accepts this as just another chapter. I may not agree to spend $600 on a Jeter ball, but I don't hate any of the participants... Neither the fans, the teams, the players, the sellers of memorabilia, etc.

[Vintagedegu]

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[ChiefBenderForever]

The same principles can be applied to everything and yes it sucks, everything sucks. Exxon Mobile just made $48 billion in profits and yet I have been paying 4.00-4.50 a gallon for over 4 months and will probably get worse, why ? Because now they have to try to make $100 billion in profits. I guess the Walmart effect has completely spilled over to everything, even our beloved hobby. And when someone just dropped over 1k to see the game what is another $600 for a ball for Jr ?

Sadly most fans can barely afford to go to one game a year and have enough trouble paying the cable bill on time. And most people only go when they get tickets for free but many don't ever have that happen. But the players are still the best of the best, and hopefully the league and owners are keeping an eye on the NBA, where 80% of the teams have less than 50% of the seats filled everynight and can only blame themselves. Even the great Yankees had empty seats at the playoffs, that never happened at the House the Ruth built. Greed is good until you price everybody out and are left holding the bag of s*&t you filled.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by ChiefBenderForever

The same principles can be applied to everything and yes it sucks, everything sucks. Exxon Mobile just made $48 billion in profits and yet I have been paying 4.00-4.50 a gallon for over 4 months and will probably get worse, why ? Because now they have to try to make $100 billion in profits. I guess the Walmart effect has completely spilled over to everything, even our beloved hobby. And when someone just dropped over 1k to see the game what is another $600 for a ball for Jr ?

Sadly most fans can barely afford to go to one game a year and have enough trouble paying the cable bill on time. And most people only go when they get tickets for free but many don't ever have that happen. But the players are still the best of the best, and hopefully the league and owners are keeping an eye on the NBA, where 80% of the teams have less than 50% of the seats filled everynight and can only blame themselves. Even the great Yankees had empty seats at the playoffs, that never happened at the House the Ruth built. Greed is good until you price everybody out and are left holding the bag of s*&t you filled.

Good post- I agree!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Vintagedegu

I know what you mean, but the way I see it, business doesn't have to be cold, impersonal and soulless. The 'Pre-Steiner' era was like a mom-and-pop store to today's Walmart. It's the Babe hanging out signing autographs on the street versus being funneled like rats through a Tri-Star queue. I believe we're dealing with an objective, quantitative difference between now and 1869 or even 1989. It's a total rupture with the past. Not a relative situation where it's essentially the same, but developing naturally with the times.

I saw the tail end of the 'fun' days, and the players and collectibles weren't as snooty, overpriced and 'businesslike' as today. There were no $500 autograph tickets, even adjusted for inflation. People made their money (not as much though) without tearing out the soul of the game/hobby. A person who was angry over the rise of professional baseball would fall over dead if they saw this.

And believe me T, I don't want be argumentative or demean your views or love of the hobby. It's good that you still find enjoyment in these things, as people need an occasional refuge from all the crap in the world. Speaking for myself, though, I just don't care anymore. For the last 2-3 years, I've largely ignored current developments in baseball, instead devoting my time to the old guys.

+100...............I have felt this same way my whole adult life. I could care less about watching today's major league games for all of the reasons stated. I can't stand the whole thing...the players, the owners, the everything about today's Major Leagues.

On a related note I read today where the local Texas Rangers Double A team, the Frisco Roughriders, just went over the 5 million mark in attendance. They are the most watched double A team in "business" today. I do like their games and everything about them. The tickets are about $10, the hot dogs are about $3, sodas about $3 and the parking is Free. Add to that the players are nice and they look like they are having fun. I still love the game....just can't stand the Majors nor do I watch any Major League games. And I am sure everyone on the board already knows my feelings as I have usually been in the vast minority and fairly outspoken....which is ok too. To each their own. best regards

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Leon

+100...............I have felt this same way my whole adult life. I could care less about watching today's major league games for all of the reasons stated. I can't stand the whole thing...the players, the owners, the everything about today's Major Leagues.

On a related note I read today where the local Texas Rangers Double A team, the Frisco Roughriders, just went over the 5 million mark in attendance. They are the most watched double A team in "business" today. I do like their games and everything about them. The tickets are about $10, the hot dogs are about $3, sodas about $3 and the parking is Free. Add to that the players are nice and they look like they are having fun. I still love the game....just can't stand the Majors nor do I watch any Major League games. And I am sure everyone on the board already knows my feelings as I have usually been in the vast minority and fairly outspoken....which is ok too. To each their own. best regards

You can't beat minor league baseball...you just can't. I won free tickets to today's game on the comfort zone couch (A contest I sign up for every year)..however it is over 100f today with a heat index of 110 and that black vinyl couch in the sun just doesn't sound like it's worth it today.