Counterfeit/altered Cards?

[jg8422]

Thanks for the help guys. I have always collected PSA or SGC graded cards b/c I never thought I had enough knowledge to feel comfortable enough to drop thousands on a raw card. I also do not feel comfortable yet looking at a raw card and being able to guess the grade it will receive. As we all know, one point difference can make a huge difference in high-end vintage cards. Or maybe I could always just pop it out and keep resubmitting it until I get a better grade. That seems to be a common practice.

[ls7plus]

Get a loupe -- 16x does quite nicely--and check out the print dot pattern under magnification. Compare it if possible to other cards in the same set. If the pattern is regular, it has almost certainly been printed from the original plate and is legitimate. However, if the dots lack a regular pattern and seem randomly dispersed, it has most likely been re-screened, and is indeed counerfeit. Certain portions of the card, often such as team logos or perhaps facsimile signatures, will have solid, unbroken lines making up this part of the card, whereas on a counterfeit, what was solid on an original card will be made up of fuzzy dots. On other cards, such as the Topps 1991 Desert Shield, the counterfeiters were making up fake shield logos to attach to regular Topps cards, and the way to distinguish real from fake was to be familiar with the original, legitimate design.

The better you know what a legitimate card is supposed to look like, the easier it will be to recognize a counterfeit, because you will be able to spot something that is not quite right upon careful examination. Back in the '90's, before professional grading had gained a widespread hold on the hobby, there were a lot of fake 1984 Fleer Update cards of Gooden and Puckett floating around which bore a team logo which could be distinguished from the real thing by magnification and examination of the dot patterns in that area, but you had to know what that area of the card was supposed to look like.

And while you've got your loop out, check the edges for trimming (you cannot tell if a card has been trimmed by measuring it!). If the cut is rough as it should be for a stack of cards cut on a guillotine, shear-type press, it is legitimate. On the other hand, if it is razor sharp, it will be rejected for trimming (it is my understanding that these cards, where they measure correctly, have been put through a paper press to make them slightly larger, then trimmed back to exact size with a very sharp cutting instrument).

Good luck in hunting your raw beasts--I used to do that, but found it was simply less time consuming in most cases to buy graded cards from PSA or SGC.

Larry

[Ladder7]

Good advice above

Buy some raw, beatup commons, for side by side comparison. If a card is still iffy, post here. You'll learn fast.

Buy from the BST here. The prices are fair, in general.

[drc]

A lot of it has to do with who is the seller. There are numerous reliable sellers who know how to identify raw reprints. If you're buying a raw 1933 Goudey Babe Ruth from a guy with 2 feedback, you're taking a chance.

Side by side a reprint or counterfeit and the real card from the issue are usually distinctly different in multiple ways (thickness, gloss, stock color, other). Even if you only have some T206 commons, you should be able to identify a fake T206 Honus Wagner when you compare in person. Commons, stars and Wagner were were made the same way, with the same type of ink and card stock. Same theory and practice applies to Willie Mays and Dan Marino Rookie Cards.

A collector, even an experienced collector, is most likely to be fooled when buying from an issue he's never owned or has experience with. He has nothing to compare it the questioned card to, not even memory. On the other hand, if you've collected 1971 Topps since, well, 1971, a reprint will stand out like a sore thumb.

My printible pdf guide shows how to make such comparisons (what to look for), along with other topcs concerning identify counterfeits of early cards.

[jg8422]

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I am always amazed by the amount of knowledge on this site.

DRC- thanks for posting your very informative guide.

[drc]

I remember when an old collector contacted me because he had heard on the internet about counterfeits. He said he had been avidly collecting 1933 Goudeys for many years and was suddenly worried that some of his cards might be reprints and he doesn't realize. I told him that if he had been avidly collecting Goudeys for many years he'd be the first to know if any of his cards were reprints.

[almostdone]

Here is an opposite question. Has anyone ever seen or purchased a card as a reprint and it turned out to be the real deal?
It happened to me years ago and wondered if it has happened to anyone else. I thought I would never own a true Ty Cobb so I looked to buy a nice reprint instead. I found someone who had a bunch of cards he was selling as reprints he purchased in an estate suction. He was upfront about them being reprints and never even hinted that they might be real. He had a nice t-206 red Cobb for a few bucks so I bought it along with a Tris Speaker from the same set. When they arrived I studied them and thought they were not just good reprints but really good ones. Being that I had never owned a t-206 before I took them to someone I knew who had once tried to build the set. Upon closer examination and alot of explanation he determined that the Cobb was a great fake but the Speaker was indeed real. Not a bad pickup for $4.
Drew