What mgrs/exec's/umps would you consider future HOFers?

[ctownboy]

What most of you seem to be forgetting is that the Commissioner's Office put PED's on the banned list of substances back in 1993. It was the Player's Association who would NOT go along with banning these substances in the Collective Bargaining Agreement. Because of this, the Owners didn't want to start a fight and possibly cause a strike.

It was ONLY when Congress got involved and started talking about the anti-trust issues did the Player's Association agree to do something about PED's. At first, it was only weak penalties for players failing a drug test but then the penalties were increased after Congress was lied to.

As far as Baker goes, my main point about him is that he had advantages most other Manager's didn't have and STILL wasn't a consistant winner and never won a World Series.

As far as I can remember, from 1993 to 2006, both the Giants and the Cubs had team payrolls which were in the upper third of the NL each and every year. So, unlike Managers for the Pirates or Royals, Baker did NOT have the excuse of ownership NOT spending money on the teams he managed.

Also, Baker had a young-ish Barry Bonds. A guy who was one of the best players in all of baseball, who had won MVP Awards while in Pittsburgh and who won an MVP Award his first year in San Francisco (1993). So Baker also can not say his teams didn't have talent.

Yet, even with these advantages his teams were NOT consistant winners and did not make the Play-Offs. As I pointed out, his 1996 team had these advantages and finished with the second worst record in all of the NL while his 2006 team had a high team payroll and finished with hte WORST record in all fo the NL.

Joe Torre, Tony LaRussa and Bobby Cox had the advantages of teams with high payrolls and PED users but at least they won on a consistant basis, went to the Play-Offs fairly regularly and won some World Series with those advantages while also NOT finishing in last place. Baker can not say this.

In short, Torre, LaRussa and Cox might have underachieved with the advantages they were given but they did not fail with those advantages like Baker did.

So, if you want to keep those three out of the Hall of Fame for underachieving then go right ahead. But no one should EVER say Baker is a Hall of Fame Manager considering he had the SAME advantages as the other three but yet achieved considerably less. This is especially true when looking at his record AFTER PED use was banned.

David