E90-1 "shaded" back variations?

[edhans]

Scott,
I applaud you for your research and effort, but I strongly disagree with your conclusions. Some of the "confirmed" subjects with the shading are common E90-1s; In particular Keeler (pink), Wagner (bat), Harry Davis, and Miller. In fact none of the cards mentioned should be considered among E90-1s rarest. Until we find a Mitchell (Cin), Walsh, Duffy, Shean, etc. we can't conclude that only the rarest (last series) of E90-1s were printed with this "variation". It is incredibly unlikely that the 28 or so subjects mentioned in this thread were printed on the same sheet. For instance, I believe G. Davis to be a card which was discontinued early and Willis obviously a much later issue (note the trade during the off season after 1909). No way they were printed on the same sheet. I'm inclined to agree with those who suggest that this is just a printing anomaly that occurred on multiple sheets.

[ScottFandango]

" Ed you said "in now way were these printed on the same sheet.." why are you so sure about this?

wouldnt the artists and American Caramel Printing executives use one artist (and therefore noticably simialr styles)

the RED background cards with the shading all look VERY Similar, and are dfiferent than anyting else in the set...why assume these similar cards (sheckard, marquard, wagner batting, demmitt, tenney) were printed in different print runs....to me is seems obvious (and intuitive) that they would have all been made at the same time (also the color red is very VERY similar in all these)

i think we need to step back and take a look at the artwork and background color of this set...it may reveal more than you think....

hint hint...all the know rarities have a textured colored background not found in any other cards , again suggesting simialr style and colored cards were made together.

[edhans]

To a certain extent, the styles play a role in the "series" of E90-1. There are several other variables that are more important. I think the same artist was responsible for most of the artwork. It doesn't necessarily follow (and can't possibly be) that all of his work was released all at once.

I'm not sure what you mean by "textured colored background", but I again disagree with the contention that background colors found on the rarities can't be found on commons. I'll cite just the two examples that come quickly to mind: Duffy/Chase (and several others) and Walsh/Dygert. There are others.

Of course, I'm not certain about the G. Davis and Willis cards. One really can't be certain about most things regarding E90-1. But an examination of their playing records make it very unlikely that they were produced at the same time.

On the surface of it, the five cards you mention could have been printed on the same sheet. But how then do we account for the discrepancy in rarity? Demmitt and Tenney are significantly more difficult than Marquard and Sheckard and miles tougher than Wagner (batting).

[ScottFandango]

marquard and wagner may be more available because they are HOF's..but those red cards i feel, have the same degree of toughness....

why arent there any SHADED backs for sale out of the 300 on ebay?

as for the rare card TEXTURED background..i think its very easy to see....use the peaches graham as an example, also the bemis, ed walsh, gibson back view, and Mclean, although different colors, they all have the same (speckled/textured background)...its clearly different than the other 100 or so cards....scans would help i guess..

the lobert also shows this textured/stippled/speckled style

[edhans]

No way Tenney and Demmitt are as common as Wagner and Marquard. The ratio is probably something like 10:1.

There aren't any shaded backs on ebay because they're scarce. That doesn't mean that any card with a shaded back is a difficult subject. The four examples I cited in an earlier post are proof of that. None of the cards "confirmed" in this thread Are among the most difficult in the set. And several, most notably the Keeler (pink) are rather common.

Now I understand what you mean by "textured". I refer to them in today's modern terminology as "pixilated". Those subjects include Mitchell (Cin), Sweeney (Bos), Graham, Gibson (back), Young (Cle), Duffy, and a few others I'm sure. Interestingly, there are cards from other series done in this same style; notably E92 Collins and E90-3 Schulte. Bemis, Walsh and McLean are not examples of this style. And yes, all of the above E90-1s are quite scarce.

[ScottFandango]

looking at my walsh noww and it looks pixilated to me...just like the peaches....the light yellow makes it more difficult to see however....

we are getting somewhere now....im telling you. al the raritites in this set have textured backgrounds that are very different from all the other cards ...that is the biggest hint that art style and ink color/tone means something...add in the fact that some have rare shaded backs, and it even makes more sense

[ScottFandango]

ebay hasnt seen a roy thomas batting in 4 months...

a sneaky tough card...

[wrapperguy]

Was not interested in this thread when it came out last year but have since begun collecting the set and am only a few cards away. Cards with shading are Butler, G. Davis, Fromme, Irwin, Miller, Richie, Schlitzer, Scheckard, and Thomas batting. Will leave it up to the scholars to determine any significance.

[ScottFandango]

G davis, pink keeler, and irwin i would like to see scans if you could.... all others u mentioned i agree and have example myself...

again, whenever a card is seen in a shaded version, it ALWAYS is seen also as a clean regular version....but interestingly BOTH versions are tough....

i stand by my assessment that no shaded versions are found in a COMMON card....

hint hint....LOOK FOR CARDS WITH MOUNTAINS IN THE BACK...that was an artistic touch that was added later to add more drama to these cards......interestingly, there are very few if any MOUNTAINS in T206 cards.....


E90-1 backgrounds blow away T206 backgrounds!

might the E90-1 American Caramel set have the most diverse, colorful, unique and interesting collection of backgrounds of any pre war set?????