1928 Fro Joy Babe Ruth - Authentic?

[teetwoohsix]

Hi Greg-

Wow !!! Those last few high res scans are very convincing, especially the shot under the blacklight in between two '70's fakes......maybe Leon's theory about these being printed on two different types of paperstock is correct.

My uneducated guess would be that the card wouldn't "chip" like that if it were a modern copy? And the high res scan of the corner next to the Tunney.......looks very similar.

I don't know anything about these cards, but really enjoy reading these threads and trying to learn about them, it's alot of fun. Thanks!!

Sincerely, Clayton

[Clutch-Hitter]

Thanks Clayton

Just went back to look at the pictures under the black light with the authentic ones and it seems like those two are dirtier, either that or the dark background on them makes them look a little different.

This is the first black light picture with the two authentic ones, cropped in to the part of "...Crack Fielder" that looked the cleanest and then to the "Look Out Mr Pitcher."





And cropped in to the Tunney black light comparison:

[Clutch-Hitter]

Leon, I must have been thinking out loud. BTW, I have not sent this to a grading company. Beckett-BVG has my respect for taking on Fro Joy, but they did "miss" my premium in December. I have lots of pictures of cards cropped to the border, or even more, inside their authentic holders. Nice pick-up on your Fro Joy premium; if you ever take it to Beckett, I'd like to send mine to you to take with it, if you don't mind. My fees are paid.

And now that I know what these singles look like, including the E121 type, I'm about to print a Beckett submission form for my Crack Fielder and Look Out Mr Pitcher cards.

The seller of this Grip card sold a few E121 type Fro Joy's recently, stating he or she acquired them from an east coast estate. He or she sells quite a bit of vintage stuff, plus east coast sounds like a likely spot to find some based on what I've read and heard.

Check out the other E121 type cards from this seller (not my cards below):





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My Premium

[Clutch-Hitter]

Fro Joy cards on e121 looking paper are fake, probably TCMA mid 70s productions.

Here's a fake Cobb:



The Ruth's Grip card is fake.

[Leon]

Hey Greg
I have usually thought the Fro Joys and Babe Ruth Candy cards SHOULD be on card stock that is similar to E121's. Now you are saying they are fake. Can you help me understand that? I am familiar with the notion of a rogue lithographic machine being in the hobby but have never heard of this particular card stock issue before. (besides a Beckett grader and myself thinking these cards could have been produced on different types of stock at time of mfg)

[Clutch-Hitter]

Sorry Leon, I worded that wrong. My #5 Grip card has to be fake, and it looks more like an E121 to me than known real Fro Joys (I know very little about E121 except for my poor Reuther). Something was wrong/different with this thing right out of the package, so I thought it may be one of the unknown type you've mentioned. Also, my son Jack was born May 1, which obviously led to little time here and messing with my cards. When I re-read my one of my posts, it seemed like I didn't see what you wrote, but I did and have 100% confidence in what you're saying. However, it is confusing trying to imagine what one of the unknown type Fro Joys looks like in a scan and agreeing with you that the blue under the light looks like reprint paper (?). Do you have a scan of one of the unknowns?

With the Grip card, I've resorted to my first impression and the pictures under the light next to my two authentic Fro Joys. I have 10 days left to get a refund, but I want to keep it if it's one of those. The same seller sold the previously mentioned Cobb (SGC counterfeit) as well after selling the Fro Joys, and he or she has also been selling 70's TCMA. In the descriptions, all the cards were from a southern estate. I have a feeling that Cobb would fluoresce big time though, unlike the Ruth Grip card.

By the way, I just got an e-mail from Beckett:

• #2 Look Out Mr Pitcher got a "3"
• #6 Crack Fielder got a "2."

Paper comparison under the black light seems to work for these.

I appreciate your time and help Leon, and sorry I worded some ideas wrong.

[Leon]

Hey Greg
No problem. Suffice it to say the card here "Bang the Babe Lines One Out" is the one I have had in my collection for quite a while. You can't really see a difference in the paper from the scans however, after close inspection of the paper stock it was determined there could not be 100% certainty that the card is good. Therefore it will not be able to be put into a holder....(unless some new information comes out leading me/us to believe it is good.)

[Jaybird]

sorry to be stupid. but to clarify, are you guys saying that the known Real cards are a rougher E121 paper and that the ones on smooth stock are questionable?

I bought two that are on smoother, whiter stock that seem to be real from what I can tell comparing the factors you mention other than paper stock. They also do not flouresce under black light like modern paper.

Leon, I would say that mine look more like the bottom image in your last post. Just a little cleaner around the edges.