Performance Enhancing Drugs - How Those Implicated Have Impacted Card Collecting

[steve B]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

In some cases it is true that production of some specialty sets or cards are very limited, however often their appeal is also minimal. What appeal does a 1 of 1 card have when only a single person can own it, especially if it is simply a picture of an existing player. I can simply take a photo of that individual. I can no longer take a picture of Ty Cobb, Lou Gehrig, etc. These limited edition sets have not survived the test of time, and perhaps more importantly the test of sustained value, T206's have.

That's an excellent point, and one that's often overlooked in collectibles. Some stuff is too rare to be valuable. There has to be just enough supply that someone can figure it's possible to own the item. After that it's mostly PR creating demand. The Wagner isn't rare, but it is expensive because it hits all the right points - Just rare enough to be difficult, but not nearly impossible, great player, and a great story that plays well in the press wether it's true or not. Now how many of us have cards that are harder to find. How many of us have several cards that are more rare than the Wagner? Probably quite a few. I think I probably have somewhere around 15 -20 tougher cards. And only one is a modern 1 of 1. The whole assortment wouldn't even make a downpayment on a Wagner. They nearly all suffer from being too obscure for most people to care about at all. The 2 prewar ones crossover from sports to non-sports, and at the moment only 2 are known of each. They've been on the BST with very little interest, priced roughly like a VG T206 HOF player. NOT griping, just using them as an example of rare cards that don't have much value because there's no demand.

The PED stuff hasn't affected my collecting aside from making a few cards cheaper. And I'm still not sure that is A PSD thing, or just that people figured out the stuff just isn't that hard to find.

Steve B

[quinnsryche]

I will not myself own any cards of admitted or suspected (beyond a reasonable doubt) steroid/PED users. I also will not allow my 11 yr. old son to own any either. What I WILL do is continually tell him that cheating is unacceptable in any aspect of life (including sports). Hopefully it sticks with him and he never idolizes any of these scumbag drug cheats. Is it just a coincidence that users of PEDS tend to be the biggest PUDS of the era?

[ls7plus]

With regard to Steve B's point, rarity is relative to the amount of collectors seeking the item. Many collect T206; other deep pocket collectors collect iconic items; many collect hall-of-famers and strive for their best cards to the extent $$ permit. Hence, Wagner is rare relative to the number of people who want one. You're right that many members of this board have cards that are rarer than the T206 Wagner in an absolute sense--I can think of at least 5 or 6 pre-war cards that I have that fit that bill right off the top of my head, and there are probably more. And I know with certainty that many board members have collections in that respect that literally dwarf mine--I've seen them here on a continuous basis. But rarity alone has never had a direct correlation to value--condition and significance (or popularity, if you like--I consider popularity a subset of significance) are also necessary factors in the equation. Not too many collect the 1933 Butter Cream set, but a lot of people collect Babe Ruth, and only two or three of the Babe's cards from that set are believed to exist. If a card from that set was a common and that rare, under those circumstances, its value would not be expected to be very high. But because the rarest is the Babe, REA recently sold a VG-Ex example for $111,000.

By analogy, a good example in coins is the 1895 proof Morgan silver from the Philadelphia mint, an issue that was available only in proof, and 880 were struck. Now, we wouldn't consider a card with a surviving print run of 800+ to be rare, but the 1895 [plain, no mintmark, Philadelphia mint] Morgan silver dollar in proof is, because no examples whatsoever were struck for circulation, and many thousands of people collect Morgan silver dollars by date and mintmark. The consequence is that even one in off grade can easily fetch $40,000 or more.

As far as Tony's post is concerned, a very large part of me is in agreement, which is why I am so conflicted about McGwire now, a player I truly loved to watch play. I wouldn't even look at any of his cards for years. But I'm also reluctant now to be so judgmental--I certainly wouldn't want my whole life to be judged based on some of the things I've done, and wouldn't do over again. And younger generations are not nearly as concerned with the tie baseball tradition has to statistics, a tie that the 'roid guys did their best to throw out the window. That's why I think that the pioneer theory might have some future merit.

Best regards,

Larry

[ls7plus]

Does anyone believe that the chemists aren't once again ahead of the testors? Exhibit "A"--Jose Bautista; utility journeyman up to two years ago, and now a slugger to rival the likes of Mantle and Mays in their primes??? 74 homers in his last 2008 at bats preceding 2010, or an average of about 19 per full season; then 64 HR's in just 671 at bats during 2010-2011. This, from a guy who just turned 30 last October. Maybe the Mick's been reincarnated into the Bautista body; or more likely, what looks like a pig, walks like a pig, and is covered with pig feces just like a pig IS a pig! Like he thinks were all born yesterday! Hook him up to a polygraph and let the truth come out!!!

Larry