T card era cigarette packs

[rdwyer]

Now that most of us have posted pictures of their packs, I would like to see how many have the right stuff. Do you have a pack that has the right info?

For example: My Old Mill box has Factory 25 2nd District Virginia with overprinting of June 12, 1911 for the date. According to Robert Forbes book of American Tobacco cards T16, T42, and T80 had Old Mill backs. But they were either made in a different year, or had different factories. So without a doubt, this pack had a T206 card in it when distributed.

If you need help, post your info and I'll check to see if any non sports cards were made with your info.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by rdwyer

Now that most of us have posted pictures of their packs, I would like to see how many have the right stuff. Do you have a pack that has the right info?

For example: My Old Mill box has Factory 25 2nd District Virginia with overprinting of June 12, 1911 for the date. According to Robert Forbes book of American Tobacco cards T16, T42, and T80 had Old Mill backs. But they were either made in a different year, or had different factories. So without a doubt, this pack had a T206 card in it when distributed.

By the Summer of 1911, American Lithographic (ALC) was printing their Gold-Bordered cards (T42-Birds, T80-Military Series, and T205-BB, etc.) The last production runs
of T206 cards were in the Spring of 1911. We have ALC documentation to this effect. In March 1911, ALC was intermixing their dwindling stock of T206 cards with T80
cards in UZIT packs.
Therefore, I would guess that your OLD MILL pack contained T42 cards or T80 cards. These two non-sports series were inserted in OLD MILL packs at the Richmond, VA
plant (Factory #25). Incidently, the T80's with an OLD MILL back are very tough to find.
And, your pack certainly did not contain T205's, as T205's were not printed with OLD MILL backs







TED Z

[rdwyer]

Tedzan:

Unable to scan pages from Robert Forbes book. But it states that "T42's were printed late 1910 and early 1911". T80's "were probably issued around 1910-11". Also T80's with the Old Mill back were unnumbered.

If you have further info, I would like to see it.

[tedzan]

It's my understanding that the White-bordered T42 cards were issued in 1910. Then American Litho. (ALC) followed with
their Gold-bordered version of the T42 cards in 1911, of which OLD MILL was one of the T-brand backs.

The T80 cards are not a 1910 issue. Two ALC letters, dated Feb 16, 1911 and Mar 18, 1911, specifying that a T80 card
and a T206 card were to be inserted in each LENOX, TOLSTOI, and UZIT packs containing 10 cigarettes each. All three
of these cigarette brands were produced in Factory #30 (NYC). The other two brands associated with T80's are CAIRO
MONOPOL and OLD MILL. However, T80's with these two backs are very scarce and it is fair to conclude that very few
T80's were also inserted in these packs.

Considering the date (June 12, 1911) on your OLD MILL pack, my guess is that it most likely contained two T42 cards.

Pardon me, if you already knoww all this stuff. But, I really do not think T206 cards were found in OLD MILL packs in the
Summer of 1911. By then, T206's were history....ALC was busy cranking out their new cards such as T201's, T205's, etc.


TED Z

[canjond]

Bumping this old thread, but wanted to share a neat little "find" that I know at least a few on this board are aware of (and a big thanks to Alan for pointing them out). A gentleman on the non-sports forum had purchased a collection of flattened and trimmed turn of the century cigarette packs a few years back I believe (at least I do not believe it is a recent purchase). His collection contained many amazing flattened and trimmed packs, but also yielded two really exciting items. The first is a Red Sun flattened pack. This Red Sun pack pre-dates the card issue by a few years (as the brand was still owned by Butler and Butler), but it's one of only 2 Red Sun packs I've ever seen. In fact, the first one I have ever seen was just 2 months ago.



The second pack is much more interesting in my book. Below is the first image of what I consider a "true" T206 style Hindu pack. As many on here have seen before, Hindu advertised the release of baseball cards in newspapers in 1909 (see an example below). Depicted in these ads was a drawn representation of the cigarette pack which supposedly yielded the cards. However, this exact style of pack had never been seen before. Curiously enough, a different style of Hindu pack had been discovered, but had different graphics and was a more elongated style. These elongated packs are extremely rare in their own right. Until recently, I had only known of 1 of these, but since have heard of 2 more. Anyways, I thought some others on here would enjoy finally seeing a Hindu pack in full color.






(please note this Hindu pack is NOT mine).

[Vol]

Jon, thanks for bumping this thread and sharing even more packs. This is still one of my most favorite threads, so much great information here. That Hindu cig newspaper ad is very cool. New Orleans newspaper I see.
Thanks again.

[DixieBaseball]

Jon,

Thanks so much for sharing the info on both packs ! Nice to finally see both.... Out of curiosity, did the other Red Sun pack you saw a few months back look like the one you just posted ? (what was the date on it ?)

Thanks, Jeremy