"The Unauthenticatables"

milkit1 · #1 04-02-2011, 10:51 PM

Here is frank smith. Not identical however its interesting that he signed it f. elmer which is consistent with him signing it f.e. Te Pryor Mcelveen sig is to new to match with ww1 as they are not even close.

frank smith.jpg

milkit1 · #2 04-02-2011, 11:22 PM

I contacted a family member regarding Gus Dorner as his military record does not show up on ancestory. ill keep ya posted

vintagecpa · #3 04-02-2011, 11:31 PM

Wow, if you guys would have been on the Warren Commission, the "Grassy Knoll" and "Magic Bullet" wouldn't be household words. Very impressive research.

milkit1 · #4 04-02-2011, 11:35 PM

I def. see resemblances in the SABR smith and the draft card smith that I don't see on the t206.

Clutch-Hitter · #5 04-03-2011, 12:01 AM

Regarding ".... Smith," whoever signed it was having trouble with the ink on the "S," first hump of the "m," and the "h."

What keeps catching my eye in "...Smith" on the card and the found example is:

The stop/go where the "m" ends and the "i" begins.
The second hump of the "m."
The "S," including the height of it.

The book and the found example:

The h in Smith travels above the line consistently
The crossed t has a similar angle, above the t and through the h.
The entire name travels on the line consistently
The F in Frank were partially done, lacking pressure in the loop, fading off.

............

The S in the book example is different from the others, but the S on the card and found ex. are similar.
The F in the found ex. is different, but the F on the card and book are similar
The end of the h on the card is different, but he didn't have a line to write on.

In the few instances where one seems different, the other two are similar.

novakjr · #6 04-03-2011, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clutch-Hitter

Regarding ".... Smith," whoever signed it was having trouble with the ink on the "S," first hump of the "m," and the "h."

What keeps catching my eye in "...Smith" on the card and the found example is:

The stop/go where the "m" ends and the "i" begins.
The second hump of the "m."
The "S," including the height of it.

The book and the found example:

The h in Smith travels above the line consistently
The crossed t has a similar angle, above the t and through the h.
The entire name travels on the line consistently
The F in Frank were partially done, lacking pressure in the loop, fading off.

............

The S in the book example is different from the others, but the S on the card and found ex. are similar.
The F in the found ex. is different, but the F on the card and book are similar
The end of the h on the card is different, but he didn't have a line to write on.

In the few instances where one seems different, the other two are similar.

Based on the examples shown, I'd say there's a good chance the sig on the card may be legit. Nothing for sure though. It appears that more time was put into the signature on the card, not in a forgery sort of way, but more of a difficulty with the writing utensil sort of way, as you pointed out. Also, maybe a bit more care in making the signature nice for somebody that was kind enough to ask for it. I know when I had my band, whenever I signed something for someone, I made it a little more nice than my typical chicken scratch on a credit card receipt or random paperwork.. This is all just speculation though.

BillyCoxDodgers3B · #7 04-03-2011, 07:49 AM

Sean,

Can you post the Smith WWI card in its entirety? I spent over six months collecting the WWI cards of every major leaguer I could unearth and was unable to locate Smith's. I'm not convinced that yours is the right Smith, as the signature doesn't quite match up to others I have on file. Does the vital info match up to known info for Smith? Also, I notice that the Frank Smith you found had listed a mother in Connecticut as next of kin; Smith the ballplayer was a lifelong resident of Pittsburgh.

Here are two verifiable examples of Frank Smith. The first is from his WWII draft card, circa 1942-43. The next is a form he filled out for baseball historian Karl Wingler in 1945. This contains the only extra writing I've seen on Smith. (Please note that the WWII card was filled out by a government worker and only signed by Smith).

Clutch-Hitter · #8 04-02-2011, 11:31 PM

Put these together, hope you don't mind.......

[IMG]

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