Beantown Find. the story...

[dstudeba]

Originally Posted by pgellis

.... So how can I make a competitive bid when my first bid was ignored and then the lot sold 3 or 4 hours later with no update?

When you bid, or make an offer on any item, do you come out with your "best price" or highest offer right away? You start low and negotiate your way up. But you need input from the seller. Without any input from the seller how can you gauge your offer?

....

He asked for people to submit their best offer. Why should he assume that you didn't submit your best offer? I submitted my best offer, and it was $200 short. I couldn't do anything about it, it was my best offer. What input from the seller do you need? You can figure out the value of the cards to you.

[Gradedcardman]

Totally agree. This is not a negotiating type situation. There is no auction sniper and no time for 100's of replies. Let the man sell them and hopefully everyone who can will get a great lot. I have thrown in bids on 15 lots. I won 3. Happy to of won them and looking forward to bidding on more !! I will break them up and sell in smaller lots later on in the spring.

[pgellis]

Originally Posted by dstudeba

He asked for people to submit their best offer. Why should he assume that you didn't submit your best offer? I submitted my best offer, and it was $200 short. I couldn't do anything about it, it was my best offer. What input from the seller do you need? You can figure out the value of the cards to you.

Yes he did, but he didn't say submit it by 4:30pm today or you are #)#@ out of luck. He never spelled out "his" rules in the beginning.

When you are going in to buy a car do you say, "Hello, I will take the sticker price please!" No, you start out low and negotiate. Come up a little on your offer or we can't help you.

People are forgetting that Steve has admitted he is getting 15% for this sale. Let's not make it like he is put out for taking a picture of 50 cards and posting it on this site for NO COST and then deciding on his own when he is going to hammer the final price.

Communication........just let us know how you are going to run this sale from the beginning.

[pgellis]

Why couldn't he have taken the 10 seconds it would have taken on his listings to say, "It's 6:00pm and the high bid is $1500.00", then others could have decided to be in or not. He could have told us that this listing will end at 8:00am tomorrow morning, etc., etc.

NO COMMUNICATION!

[Ladder7]

To the guys giving out very valuable free advice., You may be leaving good money on the table.

Incidentally, there have been several high value purchases made off line. (About half of total sales), In spite of the poor service, the family continues to be ecstatic with their rapid payments.

A special Thankyou to the several, local, repeat buyers.

New stock arriving next week. Save youre pennies,

My best,
Steve F
fdnyladder7@comcast.net

[pgellis]

Why wouldn't they be estatic, they were about to give these items away for free before someone else became involved. So, if they got $100 for the collection, that was more than they expected last week.

You cannot convince me that you have maximized this family's take on this collection by how you have sold this collection.

You could have sold this collection with no information of where these cards came from, but once you said that you were trying to sell cards for an elderly woman's care, then all bet's are off. If these were your cards, then you could sell them any way you want, but you have not maximized price for someone else by selling them on here without updating bid prices and or updating when the "auction" is going to end.

Are you kidding me that a lot of vintage cards that sells in 4.5 hours on a Friday afternoon has maximized price for the "consignor". If you think that that method of selling is maximizing price, then you must have skipped "Business 101" in college.



Almost everyone here has no idea how much 24 hour care in the area that "Mrs. M" lives costs......it is not cheap. Minus 15%.

[Anthony S.]

Originally Posted by pgellis

Why wouldn't they be estatic, they were about to give these items away for free before someone else became involved. So, if they got $100 for the collection, that was more than they expected last week.

I think Steve's initial post said the niece wanted to donate the cards after original owner died back in the 1970's, so the decision not to give them away was made over 30 years ago.

[wonkaticket]

Guys come on...

As usual any simple discussion or point is taken to the extreme on here… with no middle ground.

Here is a simple readers digest points..I think some of us were trying to make…..if you see them or not no big deal..

• Hard to think lots were getting full potential when lots are up and gone in a matter of minutes in a very limited venue such as the BST.

• Some of us feel the BST for a card collection like this may not have been the best option, not our choice either nor do we ultimately care (speaking for myself) but we should not be vilified for voicing an opinion on this topic started by Steve on a public forum in a respectful manner.

• Why care about maximum value, Steve made a point as part of the sales pitch it was for Granny’s golden years and assisted living. Anyone who’s been thru that fun part of life with mom or dad can surely be sympathetic or might even respect the points/questions on sales prices & timelines made by Greg, Phil or I to be a good thing for both parties not an evil thing.

• Steve made it clear not really in this for the warm and fuzzies “I’m getting juice and cards I want at a discount”. Not that he cares but I respect him a lot for being up front on that hell of a lot more than most folks stand up in my book. Also nobody at least not me is painting him as villain for this, but also not sure he should be raised up as a hero for this either. I don’t see any of you guys praising any other auction houses or business for doing what they are being compensated for as something so special.

Finally I have no dog in this fight I’m not after any of these cards in a hardcore way in the T206 department I’m doing ok. Sure it would have been nice to be able to toss an offer in before the egg timer went off but no biggie.

If Steve wants to sell these for $1 card not my problem good on him…just with the whole story about assisted living. Having been thru that with my grandmother and seeing others go thru that ugly mess every penny can count. Shame on us for giving any advice that we found to be helpful, to the good cause and back story this was flown under.

In the end its no surprise the folks who are saying it’s great are the ones who are buying, and the others are folks who wish they could buy.

I also found it really funny that many of the folks here who jumped my case on using the “A” word (auction house) over the BST that the BST was the way to go…have had different views over the years. To me this was as much about the validity of the BST vs. auction houses and not so much about Steve and his beantown cards.

This forum is littered with folks who have come on here with less significant finds and the responses were quite different. These folks from the past were given a virtual laundry list of who’s who in the auction world..not too many BST recommendations.

Heck even our illustrious leader (Hi Leon, dont let the word illustrious go to your head ) had a falling out and monumental pissing match with a fellow past forum member when that member got mad at our moderator for recommending and standing by his recommendation to use a particular auction house for the Skydash collection….which by the way didn’t hit the BST in 3 hour lots. LOL

I found it humorous that folks would say "how can you assume he’s not getting good coin?" The flip side to that is "how can you assume he is?" or that other options wouldn’t be valid or worth tossing out in a discussion thread.

Remember he’s making money off this community and is happy doing so and that’s cool, but if the worst thing is a few community members offer up some advice or a complaint that’s part of the bag and doesn;t make you a victim.

After all it is a web community correct?

Cheers,

John

[asphaltman]

Originally Posted by pgellis

Yes he did, but he didn't say submit it by 4:30pm today or you are #)#@ out of luck. He never spelled out "his" rules in the beginning.

When you are going in to buy a car do you say, "Hello, I will take the sticker price please!" No, you start out low and negotiate. Come up a little on your offer or we can't help you.

People are forgetting that Steve has admitted he is getting 15% for this sale. Let's not make it like he is put out for taking a picture of 50 cards and posting it on this site for NO COST and then deciding on his own when he is going to hammer the final price.

Communication........just let us know how you are going to run this sale from the beginning.

Phil -

Just my opinion but if you disagree that much with the way Steve is handling things just don't participate.


I'm also not sure why you're mentioning again about his 15%? Personally, it doesn't matter to me if Steve's getting 15% or 30%....same as I don't care if Rob Lifson is getting 15% or 30%....what I "bid" is what I bid....I just don't get the connection you're trying to make with the percentage he's getting compared to how he's not handling this correctly and not communicating?


Dave

[pgellis]

Originally Posted by asphaltman

Phil -

Just my opinion but if you disagree that much with the way Steve is handling things just don't participate.


I'm also not sure why you're mentioning again about his 15%? Personally, it doesn't matter to me if Steve's getting 15% or 30%....same as I don't care if Rob Lifson is getting 15% or 30%....what I "bid" is what I bid....I just don't get the connection you're trying to make with the percentage he's getting compared to how he's not handling this correctly and not communicating?


Dave

Come on, are we comparing this "sale" with Rob Lifson. I really don't want to bash Steve, but people are patting him on the back and congratulating him. The reason I am bringing up the 15% is that, according to most people on here he is getting top dollar, so, then he is getting a lot of money for selling cards on here at no cost to him.

Rob Lifson, or any other major auction house would have major expenses in catalogs, photos, marketing, etc. to sell a collection like this. They would also have the collection up for probably 3 weeks with a price to top by bidding more.

This sale has been very blind......to most.

[ChiefBenderForever]

Originally Posted by pgellis

Come on, are we comparing this "sale" with Rob Lifson. I really don't want to bash Steve, but people are patting him on the back and congratulating him. The reason I am bringing up the 15% is that, according to most people on here he is getting top dollar, so, then he is getting a lot of money for selling cards on here at no cost to him.

Rob Lifson, or any other major auction house would have major expenses in catalogs, photos, marketing, etc. to sell a collection like this. They would also have the collection up for probably 3 weeks with a price to top by bidding more.

This sale has been very blind......to most.

I heard he is cutting Leon 3.5% of the final sales numbers.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by JohnnyHarmonica

I heard he is cutting Leon 3.5% of the final sales numbers.

No that is not the case. Johnny is joking but if Steve or anyone really wants to send me money...I won't stop you .

[dstudeba]

Removed.

[Gradedcardman]

Here we go again...

Steve, thanks for the lots !! Great stuff and the best is yet to come...

[pgellis]

Originally Posted by dstudeba

Please stop comparing this sale to the sale of a car. There are so many differences between the two. Depending on the rules of each auction house I bid differently. I read the rules, mix in my knowledge of game theory and probability and figure out my bidding strategy. You assumed or expected somethings that didn't turn out that way and you lost.

The unknown and the absense of rules could have caused more excitement and "auction mania" than if they had been consigned to REA in their huge catalog.

I thought we were all about full name disclosure if you are posting and taking a stand in a discussion that has become a little warm over the past few days.

Second, I will compare it to buying a car because if there were no rules stated in the beginning, my comparison is that you never offer your top price right out of the gate. There is usually a negotiation back and forth and an agreed upon price reached when both sides communicate.

[Leon]

If we are going to have spirited debates then full names should be out there....It's only fair I think...

[asphaltman]

edited

[pgellis]

Originally Posted by asphaltman

I think the bottom line Phil, is you've already admitted your original price was a low number...with the intent there would be some negotiations back and forth. The problem with that is Steve asked for your best offer...and this is only a guess, but say Steve got even 20 offers for LOT A. Should Steve really go back and counter all 20 people? Or should he just let the top 3-4 know they aren't quite at his high bid (which I believe is what he did), and give just those few people the chance to raise their bids.

You wanted to negotiate...and Steve didn't....and since Steve is the seller, end of story.

If Steve wants to maximize the $$, then yes he should go back and counter all 20 offers. He is getting paid to handle this sale. Even if you think that is too much to ask for 15%, then why can't he update the original post with something like, "Top Bid - $2000 - Will end tonight".

When I made my initial inquiry, I didn't hear back for a while. I assumed he was busy with other things and I would eventually hear back. But no word and then sold 4.5 hours later. Didn't get a chance to bid at all actually.

AGAIN, I thought if people were getting in on this debate we needed full name disclosure. Easy to take a stand in a spirited debate and hide.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by pgellis

AGAIN, I thought if people were getting in on this debate we needed full name disclosure. Easy to take a stand in a spirited debate and hide.

You are correct on this issue Phil.

Dave and anyone else that wants to debate this- you need to have your full name out here or edit out your comments. It's only fair.

[Jaybird]

Originally Posted by pgellis

If Steve wants to maximize the $$, then yes he should go back and counter all 20 offers. He is getting paid to handle this sale. Even if you think that is too much to ask for 15%, then why can't he update the original post with something like, "Top Bid - $2000 - Will end tonight".

When I made my initial inquiry, I didn't hear back for a while. I assumed he was busy with other things and I would eventually hear back. But no word and then sold 4.5 hours later. Didn't get a chance to bid at all actually.

AGAIN, I thought if people were getting in on this debate we needed full name disclosure. Easy to take a stand in a spirited debate and hide.

Bottom line is that you used the wrong tactic with this particular situation. If you wanted the lot badly, you should not have come in with a low offer. Even if that's your normal practice, in this case it didn't work, so it should make you rethink your approach.

If I want something badly, I won't throw out a low offer. It may be a situation where I put my best offer out there and then they come back with a higher number and I might come up a little or I might just say, "that was my best offer". Then the ball is still in their court.

My only point is that there isn't a "one size fits all" method of negotiating. You have to be willing to change tactics, and read the situation to see how to play it. It all depends on how bad you want the item and how many other people are out to get it.

If a buyer put an offer in that is waaay below 10 other offers that have come in, common sense would say that the buyer wouldn't come up 400% to meet the other offers. Maybe that's not true in your case, but that's common sense. You offer $1000, the highest bid is $4000. Should the seller think that you're going to come up to $4100? I don't think so.

[dstudeba]

Originally Posted by pgellis

I thought we were all about full name disclosure if you are posting and taking a stand in a discussion that has become a little warm over the past few days.

If you would like my name please PM me.

I have removed the post.