Goodwin Auction is open + Peck & Snyder Discussion

[E93]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Jim- can you actually recall a time when more Wagners were auctioned than Planks? I can't. I think Planks show up more frequently.

Barry,
You may be right. I have a vague recollection that about 8-10 years ago that almost no Planks came up for two or three years while one or two Wagners were coming each year. But my memory is not great. I have certainly never seen an auction with three Wagners in it! Didn't REA even have four Planks one time?
JimB

[E93]

I have been thinking more about the number of Wagners out there. REA estimates roughly 50 in the latest auction write-up. That number makes sense. That means if roughly two are sold every year, that on average the average Wagner stays in its temporary home for about 25 years.

Also, since people like Rob Lifson have been following new finds since the late '60's or early '70's when there were less than 10 known, I would think he would be in a good position to make a reasonably accurate estimate.

I know some estimates are as high as 80-100, but those numbers always seemed high to me. I just think they would be seen much more frequently if the number was that high. If there were a hundred and two a year are publicly traded, then the average owner would hold their copy for 50 years! That seems very high on average.
JimB

[oldjudge]

Jim--I think there are several people with multiple Wagners and those will come out as groups. Call me skeptical, but I'd bet the number of Wagners that exist is closer to 100 than it is to 50.

Barry-The fact that you and Corey agree certainly means that the theory makes sense. I was just wondering if there was anything beyond a theory.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Jim--I think there are several people with multiple Wagners and those will come out as groups. Call me skeptical, but I'd bet the number of Wagners that exist is closer to 100 than it is to 50.

From the little I know about tracking Wagners, and me seeing about 40 different at one time, per the Net54 dinner a few years ago, I have to believe there is close to 100 Wagners in the hobby. With what I have seen I will not be convinced otherwise. I usually think of there being as much that I "haven't" seen as much as I "have" seen however the internet has evened out much of the experience on seeing cards. That being said, with the popularity of the Wags, the price wouldn't go down whether there is 20 or 150. The demand is huge....

[barrysloate]

I believe REA had five Planks a couple of years ago, and three last year. Has there ever been an auction with more than one Wagner?

[GaryPassamonte]

Barry or Corey,
Wouldn't the Atlantics or possibly the Lowells have been issued before Cincinnati? Their heyday was prior to Cincinnati. Also, isn't there also an Olympics version that was advertised by P&S that has never been found?

[barrysloate]

Gary- the Atlantics was likely the second trade card they issued, in 1868. Cincinnati would have been third. And the Lowells was an 1870 issue.

Jay- as I said, most of what we know about P & S has been pieced together by the experiences of collectors. There is still more to learn I'm sure. One interesting fact is that we do not know who took that photograph of the Reds. I've never even seen a CdV that has the photographer's name.

[oldjudge]

I thought Andy Peck took the picture with his Brownie camera.

[benjulmag]

Jay-A few years ago there was a thread on this issue. As I recall, reference was made to an 1870 P&S advertisement in which the 1870 trade cards (including the Red Stockings) were mentioned as being available. Thus, since that would establish that the Red Stockings trade card was being offered in 1870, and that since colored inks were introduced that year for the Mutuals and the Athletics, it follows that they would also use the colored ink that year for the Red Stockings. As to photo quality, I suspect the black ones you compared the reds to were not of the finest contrast the blacks are known to come in. Either that or you have seen red ones I haven't yet seen.

Gary-I have no recollection of an extant P&S Olympics. There are P&S Athletics and Lowells. The Atlantics is definitely 1868, and I thought the Lowells was 1868 as well.