Demmitt / O'Hara / Cobb - a survey of T206s

[tedzan]

It's my opinion that every T206 card, that American Lithographic printed 100+ years ago, has been seen in these past 50 years by veteran Tobacco
card collectors (and new collectors who surf the internet). This includes the Joe Doyle error card and the Red Cobb/Ty Cobb card.

The Joe Doyle error was known to a few, prior to Larry Fritsch revealing his card in the early 1980's. Anyone, who was familiar with Senator Richard
Russell's boyhood tobacco card collection (on display at the Univ. of Georgia) would have seen the Joe Doyle error card. Furthermore, they would've
also seen in this collection the Ty Cobb back Cobb card.

So, I do not think we will see any more heretofore unknown (normal issue) T206's. The obvious absence of any HINDU backed Ty Cobb cards in both
the T205 set and T206 set is not a mere coincidence. For unknown reasons, there was some sort of "taboo" between Factory #649 and Cobb.

Why do I think this ? Consider the following......

(a) .... The Red Cobb is the most prolifically printed white-bordered subject. This Cobb is found with no less than 24 different T206 backs....plus T213,
T214, and T215 backs.

(b) .... Surveys of the various T206 backs have proven that the Red Cobb was Double-Printed with respect to certain brands.

(c) .... The T205 Cobb is found with 8 different backs in this issue.

Yet, still NONE of the five Cobb's in these two Tobacco card issues have been found with any authentic HINDU backs.

Tell me John, is all this just serendipitous ?

I don't think so. By design, Mr. Cobb and HINDU are mutually exclusive.



FRANK W

There is approx. a 2-to-1 ratio of Green Cobb responses to Demmitt & O'Hara responses in your survey. There are several of us who have 2, 3, or more
Green Cobb cards in our T206 collections. But, our vote counts for only one. So, I just wanted to point out that there are most likely 2000 Green Cobb
cards in circulation. While there are probably no more than 400-500 Demmitt or O'Hara cards out there.
But, I would guess you are aware of this.

TED Z

[FrankWakefield]

Ted... you rascal.

Thank you for doing the math of that for me. I was in a daze, thinking how selfish it is of some folks to have more than one green Cobb. Of the 520 'attainable' T206s, there are 2 that I've never owned, and one of those is the green Cobb. Some folks are just greedy...

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by tedzan

For unknown reasons, there was some sort of "taboo" between Factory #649 and Cobb.

TED Z

This is a conspiracy theory that like many other conspiracy theories ignores facts.

[CMIZ5290]

I realize there is an extreme rarity concerning demmitt and o'hara, but we are talking about comparing the collectibility of 2 medicore players with ty cobb! Not to mention the astronomical difference in smr prices. A psa 8 green cobb has an smr of $48k and climbing( a recent one with bill g brought almost 70k!) while demmitt and o'hara check in with smr values of $27,500. What again were we trying to debate on this thread or another thread? swapping o'hara for cobb? i don't think so.

[wonkaticket]

“Hey Wonka….YOU PASSED THE TEST ! I threw that "Brown HINDU" Cobb out there to see how long it would take before someone caught me on this ? I took 2 hrs and 19 mins.....very slow response.”

Ted really? Come on just say I made a typo or a mistake…LOL its ok we all do it. Do you really expect me to think that this was some sort of snatch the pebble from my hand grasshopper T206 test for us little folks? I think your self appointed T206 expert status is going to your head ol’ buddy.

What I meant by the comment below I thought was clear…but happy to explain in more detail.

" In regards to Green Cobb not so sure on the 95% number perhaps you meant for the most part or in your experience unless you have add 100% of all P150 Cobb’s..."

In order to make a claim that any percentage of something is off center by any number or avg. would insinuate that you have seen 100% of something. How could that be with Green Cobb port you haven’t seen them all have you? I think some numbers and percentages get thrown around on here too much. Much of this information is taken for gospel by our newer collectors that’s why IMO we need to be more careful with information that is put on lists and listed as fact etc.

As for the reasons on why certain Cobb’s were left off Hindu’s printing runs it’s anyone’s guess. I will say that for the record it’s usually the simplest reason vs. any crazy theory of conspiracies etc.

In my business I make and produce many items, of which premium items are a big part of my business. Anytime I look at these cards I try to put my current set of production schedules from today back to 1909.

My take certain cards were not printed because the print house was simply not told too, they didn’t have the artwork or keep that close of track as to what had been printed. I have things get missed or lost off productions today in the age of computers and with dozens of SKU’s not 500+ SKU’s. It’s not surprising at all that some cards were missed, messed up or left out.

At the end of the day these guys in 1909 had one goal deliver insert premiums fish, flags, flowers, butterflies or baseball players to be shoved in packs. I would assume business ran the same back then. “I need the line to run and don’t really care what gets shoved in the packs as long as packs of smokes leave this factory to their destinations on time with some sort of promised premium enclosed.”

I’m not too sure the ATC was sweating or asking “Hey did we remember to include that Green Cobb or Cy Young….you know the one with the hand showing in this run?”

Just my take.

Cheers,

John

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

I realize there is an extreme rarity concerning demmitt and o'hara, but we are talking about comparing the collectibility of 2 medicore players with ty cobb! Not to mention the astronomical difference in smr prices. A psa 8 green cobb has an smr of $48k and climbing( a recent one with bill g brought almost 70k!) while demmitt and o'hara check in with smr values of $27,500. What again were we trying to debate on this thread or another thread? swapping o'hara for cobb? i don't think so.

Kevin agree to a point, when is the last time you saw a PSA 8 or higher of Demmitt and O'Hara go off. Fire one of those up and watch the guys with PSA 8 higher sets light those cards up I think you will be surprised.

I put no faith in SMR's either folks are all about quoting SMR prices on the rise, but the same folks never point out when cards sell for half of what they sold for prior. Many high grade T206’s including Cobb Green in PSA 8 etc. have sold years later for half price or worse.

At the end of the day I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again these are worth what somebody is willing to pay you at the time of sale regardless of SMR or past auctions.

Cheers,

John

[CMIZ5290]

John- point taken.

[tedzan]

I'm still trying to understand your thinking here......
" In order to make a claim that any percentage of something is off center by any number or avg. would insinuate that you have seen 100%
of something. How could that be with Green Cobb port you haven’t seen them all have you? I think some numbers and percentages get
thrown around on here too much. Much of this information is taken for gospel by our newer collectors that’s why IMO we need to be more
careful with information that is put on lists and listed as fact etc. "

And, I'm not trying to be a "wise-guy". But, for argument's sake let's say there are approx. 2000 Green Cobb's in circulation. Of these 2000,
500 of them are PIEDMONT 150 Cobb's.

So, are you telling me that unless I have seen all 500 of these PIEDMONT 150 Cobb's, that I cannot make a % judgement with respect to
their centering ?

I will tell you that I have seen at least 100 of these PIEDMONT 150 Cobb's; and, that sample is more than I need to make a determination
that this particular Cobb will consistently be found off-center to the top....as mine is.

Do professional polling company's have to sample 100 Million people to determine how they are going to vote ? They usually sample 1000
people when they take a poll and their resulting accuracy is usually within +/- 5%.




TED Z

[wonkaticket]

Ted,

I too have held my fair share of T206 Green Cobb's nobody is saying that most P150 are not found OC to the top a lot of them are. I have 3 right now with the same cut as yours. What I am saying is to make a judgment that approx. 95% are found that way is reaching a bit or perhaps pulling numbers from thin air.

Which is ok over beers but this board and the info presented should be a bit more concrete if you will IMO.

Also what you have personally handled is not an entirely accurate census for the entire collecting collective as a whole. If we always went off one or two collectors experiences were to base any avgs. the whole thing would be really messed up IMO.

Anyone can use numbers..I could say that 64.2% of folks here think you made up the 95% number on the spot...see how that works.

Here is a not so OC Cobb right now on the Bay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1909-T206-TY-COB...item33655016ac

Cheers,

John