When a proof is a proof

[barrysloate]

Thanks Tim. I don't recall if he had a theory about them, but I do think he came pretty close to identifying all or most of the players.

[Abravefan11]

He did identify them all. If you do a search for Southern League and find the thread I did about Joe Jackson I believe I listed them in a later post.

I don't recall if he had a theory about their exclusion but I will check my VCBC when I get home later tonight if no one else posts before.

[DixieBaseball]

Barry - I have not been able to connect all the dots, but research indicates there seems to be some possible correlation with the time period around Chattanooga team leaving the Sally League (1909 C League Champions) and entering the 1910 (A) Southern Association via purchase by Andrews & Patten of the Little Rock franchise which resided in the Southern Assoc. for years. (1908-Tris Speaker - L.R.) They bought the Little Rock franchise, moved it to Chattanooga and then bumped the team from C League to A League, thus possibly bringing Alcock and Meek into interest for production in the T206 set. Alcock & Meek were 2 of the better players for the Lookouts, but a lot of folks may not know that Al Demaree ended up playing at the end of the season in 1909 for the Lookouts (38 games) and helped push them to the Sally Championship. Al came over from Savannah who was a competitor in the Sally league which created a lot of controversy around the Lookouts winning the League in 1909. (Augusta protested) Somehow moving from the Sally to the Southern Assoc probably pushed these 2 guys into the spotlight, and they nearly were distributed in the T206 set. Demaree is featured in the T210-8 set, but Alcock and Meek are not, so if we could match up the timelines for releases of the T206 SLer's and T210 set, I believe that would possibly give us some answers.

I have never read the KO article, and would love to read it to compare notes if anyone has it.... (I believe Keith also owns these 8 SL proofs, right !?)

The players for the proofs are :

Alcock, Meek - Chattanooga (Not featured in the T210-8 series, but both played partial seasons for the Lookouts who are featured in T210-8 series)
Dwyer, Lee, Roth - Jacksonville (Dwyer & Lee featured in T210-1 series) (Roth not featured in the T210 set)
Osteen, Pepe - Montgomery (Both featured in T210-8 Series)
Mayberry - Danville (Featuered in T210-2 series)

*Pictured below is Alcock (Top 2nd from left) and Meek (far top right) This PC is dated 5-17-09 on the back, so the season was only a few months in, and this is why Demaree is not in the PC since he did not join until the last 38 games of the 1909 season. --- Somehow with all of this info, we should be able to possibly narrow down the production dates of the SL Proofs, perhaps !?

[barrysloate]

Excellent research Jeremy, thanks. And you are correct about ownership (I guess it's not really a secret).

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I don't recall if he had a theory about them...

Here is the section of Keith's "Eight Men In" article which he gives some of his thoughts as to why the 8 proofs were not included in the T206 set. Without going into a long post I'll just say that I don't agree with several points in this section of the article. I do however have great respect for Keith as a collector, researcher, and writer.

[barrysloate]

Thanks Tim. What points do you disagree with?

[Abravefan11]

If I am understanding his points correctly I disagree with the following:

"In short, these six men would've been headline-makers in the Southern Association and South Atlantic League early in 1909, and would have been ideal choices for a mid-season supplement to the regional cards already issued, most of which depict the stars of 1908."

First I believe the 48 Southern League players included in the set, as well as the 8 proof cards were selected in early 1909 prior to or just after the seasons starting for the Southern Association and South Atlantic League. Note Dwyer is depicted with Jacksonville and was traded to Columbia in early July.

Second concerning the "mid-season supplement", 34 of the 48 that did make the set were first issued in August and September of 1909 as the seasons were wrapping up. The additional 14 cards along with the other 34 were printed in the first run of the 350 series in very late 1909 or early 1910. As I have said these 14 were not a supplement to the first 34 printed but part of the 48 decided on in early 1909.