Beware Carterscards2006

[jezzeaepi]

Sure hes still going to have business, but it will be less then it could have been if he had handeled this with more class. Im not saying he alienated everyone, but Id say the opinions are split about 50/50 on this thread. In terms of value creation or value destruction, he destroyed future value by alienating customers.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by jezzeaepi

Sure hes still going to have business, but it will be less then it could have been if he had handeled this with more class. Im not saying he alienated everyone, but Id say the opinions are split about 50/50 on this thread. In terms of value creation or value destruction, he destroyed future value by alienating customers.

I strongly disagree. Look at the prices he realized in his past auction and they're all in line with VCP. Sure, he probably alienated some buyers, but does he really care as long as his sales are around VCP average?

For example, If he has a card with a VCP of $500, it's still going to sell for about that price no matter how many bidders the auction has. Does he care if he has 10 bidders or 20 bidders as long as the result is still the same?

In other words, if you have a small business and your goal is $10K a week in sales, do you care if you have 10 customers that each spend $1000, or 5 customers that each spend $2000? No, you care about meeting your goals and making a profit.

The bottom line is that it may have cost him some customers, but it didn't cost him any volume.

Edited to add: If anything, it cost Todd because I know for a fact that he's ended up on several seller's BBL.

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I strongly disagree. Look at the prices he realized in his past auction and they're all in line with VCP. Sure, he probably alienated some buyers, but does he really care as long as his sales are around VCP average?

For example, If he has a card with a VCP of $500, it's still going to sell for about that price no matter how many bidders the auction has. Does he care if he has 10 bidders or 20 bidders as long as the result is still the same?

In other words, if you have a small business and your goal is $10K a week in sales, do you care if you have 10 customers that each spend $1000, or 5 customers that each spend $2000? No, you care about meeting your goals and making a profit.

The bottom line is that it may have cost him some customers, but it didn't cost him any volume.

Edited to add: If anything, it cost Todd because I know for a fact that he's ended up on several seller's BBL.

I'm guessing you don't run your own business. Yes, it is extremely important to keep ALL customers happy--the funny thing about running a business is that you NEVER know the business that you lost. Even though he may be averaging near VCP, if he is losing even one high paying customer he is losing out on money and this thread and his responses have alienated at least one (Todd) and several other shave expressed their feelings towards not bidding with him.

"In other words, if you have a small business and your goal is $10K a week in sales, do you care if you have 10 customers that each spend $1000, or 5 customers that each spend $2000? No, you care about meeting your goals and making a profit."

This is very short-sighted as business doesn't work this way, why be happy with the 5 customers vs. the 10 when you could have had 11, 12 or 13 if you had just played your cards right and not pissed people off?

Rhett there is no winning with this one. He will be right no matter if the wall is blue and he says its green.

[barrysloate]

Sportscardtheory- I've been involved in this same discussion many times and it is not only about whether or not you care who you are talking to on a chatboard. In a sense it doesn't even matter; your name is now by your avatar and since it's not a name I recognize it probably doesn't change anything for me.

People need to put their name out because it holds them accountable for what they say. I think twice before I post because whatever I say reflects who I am, and given the choice I'd prefer to put my best foot forward. But if I posted anonymously I could say any damn thing I wanted to without consequence. I could slander people on the board, curse people out, and say whatever I wanted, no matter how hurtful, because nobody would know it was me. But with my name out there I feel I have to post intelligently (debatable, I know), and with consideration towards others.

[rhettyeakley]

David, believe me I didn't "miss" your point! I understand what you were trying to say, I just think it is fallacious logic.

[Tsaiko]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I think twice before I post because whatever I say reflects who I am, and given the choice I'd prefer to put my best foot forward.

I agree and strive for the same integrity as you do. Everything I say or do on this board reflects on who I am and I hope I come across as a decent fellow. Anyone who ever does business with me will certainly know my name, address and phone number, but having just anyone on the internet, who might stumble across this board, know who I am, sort of freaks me out a little bit.
I've had private conversations with people on this board, good people, who if they want to know my information, I would not hesitate to share it. In fact, I've learned from reading this board that there are some people who I would not hesitate to give my name to if they were just curious, because I can see they are trustworthy, respectful people and would not share my information if I asked them not to.
If there ever comes a time when I feel I have to slander someone (not likely), I'll do it to their face, away from the public board. Unless it's Leon, who already has all my information

So that's the other side of the coin, if anybody cares.

[Fred]

Holy crap, this thread was dying a nice death. Almost nothing posted to this thread for 48 hours. Then out of the blue the seller (Carterscards-Paul) has to bring it back to the top to let everyone know that paypal sided with him. I understand why they sided with him but personally, that's not exactly news that I'd rather share if I was a seller. Maybe, technically, paypal got this one right but as Jim said - won the battle, lost the war....

Paul, honestly, you should have just let this die.... sadly (for your business) that $1K card will probably cost you much more than that now. On a different note - The hits from coast to coast.... this thread not only busted the top 5, it is now #4.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I think I am already banned as a result of merely questioning whether he was protecting a card during an ongoing auction through witness0202 (he didn't deny it, just wrote back that "we are done doing business"), but even if not, I wouldn't bid in one of his auctions to save my life.

[novakjr]

Tsaiko, I agree. But it got me thinking.

Leon, are our names made public to non-members when they view this forum? I kinda like the idea of our names only being available to members.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

I'm guessing you don't run your own business. Yes, it is extremely important to keep ALL customers happy--the funny thing about running a business is that you NEVER know the business that you lost. Even though he may be averaging near VCP, if he is losing even one high paying customer he is losing out on money and this thread and his responses have alienated at least one (Todd) and several other shave expressed their feelings towards not bidding with him.

"In other words, if you have a small business and your goal is $10K a week in sales, do you care if you have 10 customers that each spend $1000, or 5 customers that each spend $2000? No, you care about meeting your goals and making a profit."

This is very short-sighted as business doesn't work this way, why be happy with the 5 customers vs. the 10 when you could have had 11, 12 or 13 if you had just played your cards right and not pissed people off?

Actually I have owned my own business (Dealer Advertising Solutions, LLC) and I have worked for eBay and later served as a consultant to eBay Motors. However, you totally missed my point. Let me give you a real example. In Catererscards2006 last auction, he had a T206 Evers Cubs on Shirt PSA 5 that sold for $520. The VCP average is $528 and the last one sold on eBay for $504, so I think the card was in line with what it should have sold for. The auction had 19 bidders. My point is does it matter if the auction has 9 bidders, 19 bidders or 29 bidders as long as it sells for what it should? No, who cares about the number of bidders? The only thing that matters is the hammer price and I repeat the statement I made earlier. He hasn't missed a beat.

[chaddurbin]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

blah blah blah...yadda yadda yadda

from your logic in this thread i'm amazed that you have the capability to earn an income and collect cards. that's a feat in itself. i saw a couple t206s i wanted this past weekend but guess who the seller was? there are enough crooks and scammers in this hobby, i try to only support the good guys.

well done CC2006 on the outcome. as we know ebay is never wrong in their decision or judgement.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

from your logic in this thread i'm amazed that you have the capability to earn an income and collect cards. that's a feat in itself. i saw a couple t206s i wanted this past weekend but guess who the seller was? there are enough crooks and scammers in this hobby, i try to only support the good guys.

well done CC2006 on the outcome. as we know ebay is never wrong in their decision or judgement.

Well, my logic also said Todd would lose his case and I was right.

[jezzeaepi]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

My point is does it matter if the auction has 9 bidders, 19 bidders or 29 bidders as long as it sells for what it should? No, who cares about the number of bidders? The only thing that matters is the hammer price and I repeat the statement I made earlier. He hasn't missed a beat.

See that is where I disagree. You have a higher chance of getting more money for an item if there are more bidders(not more bids, more bidDERs). So yes, it is an auction system, and his cards will still sell no matter what, but the point is that the price wont get driven up as much since there won't be as many interested bidders. That is economics 101 and I won't argue it any further.

The second point is that what did he GAIN by not refunding? Since it is so easy for him to sell items, he could have just as easily issued the refund, and then re-listed the card, and resold it(unless of course the under bidder was his shill account =P). Would have cost him a few shipping fees to save all this negative PR. Now, whenever you search for carters cards on Google, this thread is the number one result, and I guarantee that most people who are checking him out will see "beware of carters cards" and not bother reading 50+ pages of postings.

Peace,
Jesse Rosen