Beware Carterscards2006

[nolemmings]

Now, on a more personal level. Those of you who know me know I collect primarily m101s, and by primarily, I mean heavily. I have a few hundred of them. I have no Stengel. Check your sources, you'll see they don't come for sale all that often. So let me get this straight. I'm finally able to land a card I need, at a manageable price no less, yet the first thing I do is look to flip it? And when SGC says its trimmed, I don't ship it off to PSA hoping they'll OK it? I just have buyer's remorse and decide that I'll get my money back (well, less two registered mailings, a $25 grading fee and more shipping fees with the return)?. This is how I do things? Really? I expect that GAI cards will cross or even get bumps because of what-- people generally have real good luck on that? As I said, I stated on my submission that I'd take a minimum of 60--so if it crosses at 60 I stand to make 5 fold on my money as this pissant suggests? An SGC Stengel 60 will sell for $5K? Right.

Here are some numbers for you. To the best of my recollection, in my entire life the number of cards I have returned or sought to return to any dealer, auction house, board member, fellow collector or guy down the street is ZERO-- this would be the first. Ever. So yeah, I have a real sweetheart scam all figured out--too bad this a$$hole and his two reputable dealer friends (who of course must remain anonymous because they do not exist) figured it out.

Second, in my entire life, I have submitted ZERO cards to any grading company other than SGC, whether raw, cross-over, reholder, review, etc. None, nada zilch. Why, if I stand to make so much on crossovers to PSA?

Third, in my entire life, I have submitted a total of THREE cards to SGC for crossover. All three were in this last submission, the Stengel that the liar sold me, a m101-4 Herpolsheimer Urban Faber GAI 8 and a m101-5 Gimbels Dave Bancroft GAI 6. The Bancroft I bought from Tim Newcomb in August 2005 and the Faber July 2005 on ebay. Yeah, I planned on shipping those back to the sellers 5 1/2 years later if I didn't get the crossover grades I wanted. Right.

In short, this guy's story is pure fantasy. BTW, I now see he claims feedback is posted immediately. Well I paid on the 4th and feedback was left on the 5th-- so again, why give me a positive if you've already been told to look for me to scam you "down the road"? BTW, check this seller's feedback now. His shiller has left him feedback claiming "100% HONEST & CUSTOMER SERVICE IS NO. 1". Does that sound like any feedback you leave for sellers--complimenting them on their honesty?

[bobbyw8469]

Just out of curiosity, did SGC crossover ANY of your 3 GAI cards??

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Third, in my entire life, I have submitted a total of THREE cards to SGC for crossover. All three were in this last submission, the Stengel that the liar sold me, a m101-4 Herpolsheimer Urban Faber GAI 8 and a m101-5 Gimbels Dave Bancroft GAI 6. The Bancroft I bought from Tim Newcomb in August 2005 and the Faber July 2005 on ebay. Yeah, I planned on shipping those back to the sellers 5 1/2 years later if I didn't get the crossover grades I wanted. Right.

Todd, help me to understand something. You said that you received the Stengel and suspected it might be trimmed so you sent it in to SGC for their opinion, along with 2 other GAI graded cards on the same submission. Just curious, but did you suspect those other 2 of being trimmed as well? Surely you didn't just want to have them in SGC holders because you stated in another post...

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Frank, I don't need the card to be graded by SGC "in the first place". I have cards from these sets in all 5 company holders, including one "PRO" that I know to be authentic and unaltered, albeit overgraded. The holder means nothing to me so long as the card is good. Similarly, I didn't care about the numeric grade, and I submitted this with a request for a minimum 60. I didn't/don't need just a nm example of this card-- I would take one in most grades and my collection of this set spans from grades 2 to 8, depending on back.

If the holder means nothing to you as you stated above, why send them in 5 years later? Why not just leave them in their holder?

Sure, the seller's story doesn't sound right. But come on, does yours either?

[novakjr]

Just a question Todd. I know this really is completely irrelevant and kinda off topic, I'm just a little curios though. I can understand sending the 3 GAI graded cards for cross-over, but why not also send the PRO with 'em?

[Peter_Spaeth]

We have a thread about a seller who refuses to accept a return, apparently shills his own auctions, apparently pleaded guilty to a serious crime involving dishonesty and served jail time, and you guys are cross-examing Todd?

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

We have a thread about a seller who refuses to accept a return, apparently shills his own auctions, apparently pleaded guilty to a serious crime involving dishonesty and served jail time, and you guys are cross-examing Todd?

No cross-examination here. Completely unrelated to his issue with Caters. I was just curious as to why he would send in the GAI cards, and not the PRO.

Originally Posted by novakjr

No cross-examination here. Completely unrelated to his issue with Caters. I was just curious as to why he would send in the GAI cards, and not the PRO.

Well we all know the Pro is more than likely over graded or altered as most are so why waist the money. His preference to do the GAI's only is just that, preference. I have bought 1 GAI card ever and it was my WOJO T205. I was lucky that it did cross and I lost a full grade from an 8 to a 7. I was more comfortable with SGC's 7 than a possible GAI 8 flip on the card if I had to sell. Sadly enough due to a family issue with my youngest I had to sell. Big regret but some day he will return to my registry. It has a sense of validity when SGC and PSA grade a card numerically, as compared to GAI, PRO, CSA, and so forth.

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by Pup6913

Well we all know the Pro is more than likely over graded or altered as most are so why waist the money. His preference to do the GAI's only is just that, preference. I have bought 1 GAI card ever and it was my WOJO T205. I was lucky that it did cross and I lost a full grade from an 8 to a 7. I was more comfortable with SGC's 7 than a possible GAI 8 flip on the card if I had to sell. Sadly enough due to a family issue with my youngest I had to sell. Big regret but some day he will return to my registry. It has a sense of validity when SGC and PSA grade a card numerically, as compared to GAI, PRO, CSA, and so forth.

Thank You. Sorry to hear about having to give up the WOJO, and about the issue with your youngest. I hope all is well.

[DJR]

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[CMIZ5290]

Djr- please! You have been watching too many godfather movies!

[CMIZ5290]

Todd- i've got your man of genius!

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

We have a thread about a seller who refuses to accept a return, apparently shills his own auctions, apparently pleaded guilty to a serious crime involving dishonesty and served jail time, and you guys are cross-examing Todd?

Other than refusing to accept a return, how is any of that pertinent to this situation? We've already determined that this auction wasn't shilled. I just don't understand what the criminal history has to do with anything. As a buyer, I could care less about the personal life of a seller. I don't care if he has a criminal background, I don't care if he is a liar, I don't care if he beats his wife, I don't care if he's going to use the money to buy crack, etc, etc, etc. I care about getting the item I purchased as it was described/pictured. Todd got what he purchased. He may not be happy with the purchase, but the item was delivered as described.

Let's deal with facts about THIS case, not people's personal life.

[DJR]

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[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by DJR

Todd did NOT receive the card as advertised. He received a M101-5 not the M101-4 as stated in the listing contract. For this reason (technicality) alone, the seller should refund the money no questions asked. It is like selling a 1915 CJ as a 1914 CJ and saying tough luck!

Ok, if it wasn't as advertised, then why didn't he send it back right away instead of sending it to SGC?

[CMIZ5290]

Mike- brrrrrrrr. You are really something.

[mdschulze]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I just don't understand what the criminal history has to do with anything.

I personally think criminal activity has a lot to do with ANY seller. I would rather take my chances conducting business with someone who doesn't have a criminal history (or hasn't been caught yet & I'm unaware) than from a known felon! IMO, if a person displays no conscience while embezzling money, why would I expect him/her to act differently with a simple buy/sell transaction. Is society so numb these days that dishonesty, lack of morals and unethical business practices mean nothing anymore?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by mdschulze

I personally think criminal activity has a lot to do with ANY seller. I would rather take my chances conducting business with someone who doesn't have a criminal history (or hasn't been caught yet & I'm unaware) than from a known felon! IMO, if a person displays no conscience while embezzling money, why would I expect him/her to act differently with a simple buy/sell transaction. Is society so numb these days that dishonesty, lack of morals and unethical business practices mean nothing anymore?

Apparently some here care only if the seller delivers the card they bought. Rather shocking to me, but that's just me.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by mdschulze

I personally think criminal activity has a lot to do with ANY seller. I would rather take my chances conducting business with someone who doesn't have a criminal history (or hasn't been caught yet & I'm unaware) than from a known felon! IMO, if a person displays no conscience while embezzling money, why would I expect him/her to act differently with a simple buy/sell transaction. Is society so numb these days that dishonesty, lack of morals and unethical business practices mean nothing anymore?

I disagree, but you make some valid points. All I am saying is what does his criminal past have to do with this particular case?

[botn]

Originally Posted by mdschulze

I personally think criminal activity has a lot to do with ANY seller. I would rather take my chances conducting business with someone who doesn't have a criminal history (or hasn't been caught yet & I'm unaware) than from a known felon! IMO, if a person displays no conscience while embezzling money, why would I expect him/her to act differently with a simple buy/sell transaction. Is society so numb these days that dishonesty, lack of morals and unethical business practices mean nothing anymore?

Memory Lane is certainly not hurting? The hobby must be a witness protection program of sorts for felons.

[nolemmings]

If the holder means nothing to you as you stated above, why send them in 5 years later? Why not just leave them in their holder?

I was hoping that Frank Wakefield would ask that question, because he deserves an answer, whereas you do not. You accuse me of being a reneger on "who knows how many occasions" and point to one transaction from 6 1/2 years ago, yet sit silently by with no comment when real man of genius Mize claims it is "uncalled for" to point to an article stating that Paul Sabatino (this seller's name) was convicted of tax evasion arising out of embezzlement of more than $1.6 M just 2 1/2 years ago because "No need to go that far back in a man's past". Wonderful consistency there. You also took a shot at my professional character as well, with your usual amount of evidence and tact. Finally, it seems it may have been you who told seller to look at this thread, which leads to me having to respond to complete fabrications. Well, hope you like your champion now--maybe you should direct a few questions his way, unless of course you buy that BS he penned.

I will answer your question, though, because it appears arguably germane and is fair, and because of my exchanges with Frank. There were two reasons I sent in the other cards. One, I knew I'd be paying a bunch in registered mail for sending in just the Stengel, so I thought I'd add a couple more. More importantly, I was curious for myself to see if SGC might have some bias toward GAI, and I knew the other two cards were good--hell, I've owned them for many years and have examined them at length--whereas the Stengel looked funny to me pretty much right away. The other two came from long ago and far different places, so while it's possible they all could be deemed trimmed, I would have frowned very heavily on SGC's approach to things if the other two came back evid--trim. They did not--the Bancroft is 80, the Faber 86.

I'm in this for the long haul, and don't do this to flip or make my money like the liar would suggest and as some of you follow.One day I hope to have all my cards in just one company's holders, but that will be when I sell or shortly before I die, both of which I hope are a ways off. Until then and as I mentioned to Frank, they're rather hodge podge and half or so raw. I'd like to think that when it comes time, SGC will still be going strong and still be my grading company of choice--then I'll take the plunge. But I can't afford to do this more than once, or at least I choose not to pay more than once. So who knows whose holder would bring the most $$$ to my old age or my heirs?

[Kenny Cole]

I purposely stayed out of this thread until the seller came in and gave his side of the story. Having now heard both, it seems to me that one of the stories smells far fishier than the other. I have some real difficulty with the concept of one baseball card version of Dog the Bounty Hunter following Todd around, let alone two. While there are some other parts of the story that I'm having some problems with, I just don't believe the two "reputable" dealers part of the story at all.

Conversely, I don't have too much of a problem with someone who has had a card or two in a GAI holder deciding, after years, to send them in because he's already sending in another. I've contemplated doing that myself on a couple of occasions, if for no other reason to have uniformity in the cards that I have slabbed. Others may disagree, but to the extent that I think that slabs are attractive at all (and I'm still not a huge fan of them), I prefer the look of the SGC slabs to the look of the others.

Kenny Cole