Beware Carterscards2006

[bobbyw8469]

In this case, it's a card in a plastic holder. I don't see any reason for the seller not to issue a refund, say within 45 days

The problem with that, is that this WAS NOT a BIN, but rather an auction. What if the under bidder wanted a GAI card, and didn't win because the winning bidder wanted to play the "crackout game - let's get this into SGC holder and triple our money!". That is why most auction houses state NO RETURNS on graded cards, and I am in that camp as well. If I was the seller, I would not want to accept a return either.
Seller relists the card again, but because of so much negative publicity surrounding this card, this time it only sells for $500. Winning bidder pays, sends it to SGC for the upgrade, except this time SGC gives it an "88/7.5" same grade crossover. Now the card is worth the $3,000 and the seller only received $500. This card is going to be forever tainted as a 0% risk card for the buyer and a 100% liability for the seller. As long as the winning bidder submits it and it doesn't cross, he returns it for 100% refund. I am still not convinced the card is trimmed, as it was graded under the old GAI label when Mike Baker was looking at the cards....

[CMIZ5290]

45 days??? What the hell???

[CMIZ5290]

Mike- first of all, he will have no chance probably of getting that price because the card is tainted. Just look at this thread. Secondly, todd knew what the card was and the seller's no refund listing on the auction. If the card did cross to an sgc 88, i wonder if todd would send paul $2k for the difference in the value? I don't think so.

[mdschulze]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Mike- first of all, he will have no chance probably of getting that price because the card is tainted. Just look at this thread. Secondly, todd knew what the card was and the seller's no refund listing on the auction. If the card did cross to an sgc 88, i wonder if todd would send paul $2k for the difference in the value? I don't think so.

The seller listed no returns, so do I on all my listings. This doesn't mean if the buyer is unhappy with the item, for whatever reason (even if he needs the money back to pay a bill), that I won't disregard and say "never mind, buyer beware".... that's crap and in my opinion unethical. I will get my item back (unless it's busted due to shipping) and relist... no problem.

Net54 has a big following but I doubt every vintage card collector out there reads this forum. Is the card now tainted? Yes, to some degree, but only to those who read this thread.

I, as a seller on ebay, would not have a problem issuing a 45 day refund on a card that's in a sealed, plastic slab. A few people may disagree and say it's too lenient, some may disagree and say it should be longer, but I would like to think most would see me as being an honest seller. If I listed "No Returns" on an auction, then by law I shouldn't be obligated to accept a return (I understand that's not the case). Morally, I would say I'm on the hook. I would rather issue a refund and sleep well at night than to have to deal with my conscience down the road.... JMO

[jp1216]

My turn -

I say that no TPGC is 100% legit. When you buy a card over the internet - you take a chance. For me, 4 grading companies are recognized by eBay. GAI is/was one of them. If you buy a GAI/PSA/SGC/BVG card on eBay you are accepting the condition based on the TPGC. The seller is too. What if it was a PSA 7.5 that was rejected by SGC? Or a SGC 7.5 rejected by BVG?

Based on that, I'd say the buyer is liable. But the facts that the seller doesn't respond to emails and (apparently bids on his own auctions) - evens the playing field. A good seller would refund and move one. Use the TPGC as a defense, but respect the buyer and other TPGC determination.

So - IF the card is still in the GAI 7.5 slab - I say the seller should REFUND. If it isn't, I say - buyer owns the card. Good business. But not 100% necessary.

Good Thread - just keep it civil. The language and attacks are getting too much.

[ChiefBenderForever]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

The problem with that, is that this WAS NOT a BIN, but rather an auction. What if the under bidder wanted a GAI card, and didn't win because the winning bidder wanted to play the "crackout game - let's get this into SGC holder and triple our money!". That is why most auction houses state NO RETURNS on graded cards, and I am in that camp as well. If I was the seller, I would not want to accept a return either.

I hear what you are saying but the seller does not own ebay or paypal. If a buyer can return anything they wan't regardless if auction or BIN then sellers need to be prepared to deal with these situations. If not they might want to consider making their own website and not deal with Ebay, or buy a table at show and get cash in hand. Anything can be returned for any reason as long as it is the same as when bought, GAI, PRO, SGC, PSA, RAW. I'm sure there are many out there who play the bump game and if doesn't work return the card, but they will get blocked by seller after seller. The seller is using Ebay to make money, he has to deal with the issues that come with it along with their rules, and by not communicating got blasted. If he had just responded to Todd explaining he was sorry this happened but he does not except returns and feels bad none of this might have happened but he didn't so we will never know. You might not want to accept a return, but with Ebay/Paypal don't really have a choice. Refund and relist, happens all the time.

[quinnsryche]

I've held out long enough. My opinion (like anyone cares): you buy a graded card, unless it's been tampered with, that's it. If it's trimmed or mis-graded, that's on the grading company, not the seller. How is the seller responsible for what a TPG says? That's stupid. He offers an encapsulated card with a grade and sells it. Once it leaves his hands, he should be done. He doesn't owe the buyer one red cent (again, my opinion) if another grading company has another opinion. After hundreds of responses, I still can't believe people think the seller is responsible. Honestly, if I was the buyer, I never would have even considered returning it to the seller because it didn't cross to my liking. The only out the buyer has if is he thinks the card /holder was tampered with on the sellers end.
Thanks for listening.

[jezzeaepi]

People can have opinions all they want, but I think the ebay buyer protection terms and conditions are pretty clear. It doesnt really matter what you would do, or what a different auction house would do. Ebay has its own rules and you have follow those on ebay.

"What happens if a buyer believes an item is not authentic?

Items that are suspected of being counterfeit are covered by the eBay Buyer Protection Policy, subject to the above and these additional terms:

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Sellers and buyers must work together in good faith during the resolution process to satisfy buyer concerns that an item may not be authentic. For example, sellers should provide the buyer with appropriate documentation or other assurances that the item is authentic, if such information is available.
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Where the seller is not able to satisfy the buyer's concerns about the authenticity of an item, sellers agree that the buyer will typically have to return the item to the seller before getting a refund. Buyers agree that they will typically be required to return the item to the seller before getting a refund. Costs of return shipping will be paid by the buyer unless the buyer and seller agree otherwise. Where buyers are not required to return the item, buyers agree to cooperate with us to ensure the proper disposal of the item as described below. Due to the unresolved dispute regarding the authenticity of the item, sellers must not later list, advertise or offer for sale the item on any eBay site or service around the world (including our subsidiaries, joint ventures and other members of the eBay corporate family).
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Generally, buyers will not be obligated to provide third-party confirmation that an item is counterfeit to open a case. Buyers should feel free, however, to seek such written confirmation from the manufacturer whenever they suspect that an item may be counterfeit. In cases where a buyer has written confirmation from the manufacturer that the item is counterfeit, or in any cases where eBay requests this confirmation, the buyer must send this information directly to us. We reserve the right to accept this written confirmation directly from other reliable third parties. Buyers agree to cooperate with us to ensure the proper disposal of counterfeit items. For example, buyers may be asked to destroy (and certify that the item has been destroyed), or send the item to the manufacturer or other appropriate third party for disposal. Any costs associated with this destruction or disposal may be paid by eBay, in our sole discretion.
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Covered cases that meet the above conditions and are not excluded under this Policy may be considered as criteria, infringement or a violation by the seller of our prohibited and infringing items policy. As a result, we may impose sanctions on the seller, up to and including suspension of the seller's account."

If a card is counterfiet, then the buyer can return it. Simple. This card has been altered, or atleast in the opinion of the buyer(and a third party). Therefore they have grounds for returning said item within 45 days. Those are the rules. If you don't like them, don't sell on ebay.

[Tsaiko]

.....and by not communicating got blasted. If he had just responded to Todd explaining he was sorry this happened ....

Yes.
I just hate to see these unsettled transactions when I know that most of the people who participate in the hobby are well intentioned and honest, including the buyer and the seller in this matter, most likely.

Hopefully the seller wasn't in a coma or some other unavoidable detainment and suddenly wakes up to this thread