Beware Carterscards2006

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

I have bought v/g graded GAI cards that I've submitted to SGC and they either A) crossed to same grade or B) got a bump up- so I doubt SGC is just discriminating because of the slab it's in.


Sincerely, Clayton

Well, I try to stay out of these type of skirmishes, but..............didn't Spence just buy into SGC and bring his own people over?

It's already been revealed in pretty obvious fashion that Spence and his people are in fact discriminating based on what authentication a piece is accompanied by.

GAI apparently has a bad reputation with autographs. It wouldn't shock me if GAI cards become the next target of.............."well if it's in that holder.......it must be bad".


Anyways. My simple take on the matter. If it's still in the holder....refund. If it's not........then don't.

[mdschulze]

I'm one of the ones who said "the customer is always right" (98% of the time), and I conduct business in that manner (for the record, I own 3 businesses and have not bankrupted yet). It's one thing for a customer to ask for a 100% refund for a service that was provided but not for an undamaged, tangible item that was purchased. In this scenario, what does the Seller stand to lose by refunding the Buyer's money? Issue the refund, get your undamaged item back, then offer a "second chance" to the next highest bidder or just relist the item. No harm done and everyone's happy.

Look at the negative exposure the Seller has gotten already just with this thread. I think a business is more likely to suffer financially from negative exposure (such as this) than to issue a refund every now and then. The Seller is not losing money... he can still sell the undamaged card and keep a positive reputation all the same. JMO!

[pgellis]

Originally Posted by mdschulze

I'm one of the ones who said "the customer is always right" (98% of the time), and I conduct business in that manner (for the record, I own 3 businesses and have not bankrupted yet). It's one thing for a customer to ask for a 100% refund for a service that was provided but not for an undamaged, tangible item that was purchased. In this scenario, what does the Seller stand to lose by refunding the Buyer's money? Issue the refund, get your undamaged item back, then offer a "second chance" to the next highest bidder or just relist the item. No harm done and everyone's happy.

Look at the negative exposure the Seller has gotten already just with this thread. I think a business is more likely to suffer financially from negative exposure (such as this) than to issue a refund every now and then. The Seller is not losing money... he can still sell the undamaged card and keep a positive reputation all the same. JMO!

So when is a deal a "done deal"? What if a buyer decides in a couple of weeks that he now needs the $1000 that he spent on a card to pay an unexpected bill. Can't the buyer say, "hey I can just return that card I bought 2 weeks ago for a full refund".

In this case, the buyer bought a GAI graded card in an auction setting for the price that he bid. He received said GAI graded card. End of deal.

[oldjudge]

So if I won a SGC numerically graded card from a Brockelman & Luckey auction and sent the card to PSA (in the SGC holder) and it came back as trimmed, should Leon give me my money back?
anyone?

Absolutely, and I believe that, as upstanding guys, that Scott and Leon would. They would then return the card to the seller (losing only the buyers commission) and the seller would have to take it up with SGC.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

So if I won a SGC numerically graded card from a Brockelman & Luckey auction and sent the card to PSA (in the SGC holder) and it came back as trimmed, should Leon give me my money back?
anyone?

Absolutely, and I believe that, as upstanding guys, that Scott and Leon would. They would then return the card to the seller (losing only the buyers commission) and the seller would have to take it up with SGC.

What if they had already paid the consignor?


They would essentially be on the hook for nearly double what the card initially sold for.


You don't think the consignor is going to put up a fight with B&L after being told they are having a card returned to them in a state different then what was initially sent out..............oh and by the way.......return the check we paid out to you?

[vintagetoppsguy]

I don't know what type of lawyer you are, but if I hire you to represent me in court of law and lose my case, will you refund my money because I am not happy with the outcome? After all, the customer is always right, right?

[pwilk17]

HMMMM - Perhaps an apology is in order. If the new management team at SGC are the same people as in this article (This article is definitely worth a read),

http://www.autographalert.com/news.html

then perhaps SGC is the new be all and end all in card grading. The people in the article are very sure of themselves. Now I do not know for certain that these are the new people running the show at SGC (that is an unconfirmed rumor), however, if they are, this changes everything. If these people say the card is trimmed, then it must be trimmed - look at their vast experience with autographs.

[nolemmings]

I don't know what type of lawyer you are, but if I hire you to represent me in court of law and lose my case, will you refund my money because I am not happy with the outcome? After all, the customer is always right, right?

Show me where I said the customer is always right. Your failure to grasp the concepts of my complaint is nearly stupifying to me. Re-read post #1 and see why I posted. I got no response from this guy--Mr. Customer Service, not so much as a sorry, no refunds, no discussion. Left me to either eat $1000 or take it up with Ebay. You can disagree with me when I say I think I'm entitled to a refund--I expected that. But have the courtesy to not put words in my mouth.

[pwilk17]

Todd - I am not looking to quarrel with you - I am just looking to make a point.

Here is what you said;

Frank, I don't need the card to be graded by SGC "in the first place". I have cards from these sets in all 5 company holders, including one "PRO" that I know to be authentic and unaltered, albeit overgraded. The holder means nothing to me so long as the card is good. Similarly, I didn't care about the numeric grade, and I submitted this with a request for a minimum 60. I didn't/don't need just a nm example of this card-- I would take one in most grades and my collection of this set spans from grades 2 to 8, depending on back.

I submitted this card because I was concerned about its being trimmed--while some don't mind altered cards, I do, and certainly so at the non-altered price. I submitted it within 24 hours of receiving it, and requested the 24 hour turnaround time, both out of fairness to the seller--if I was going to seek a refund I wanted to do so timely.

If you not need the card to be graded by SGC, then why send it to them in the first place and why are you taking their word that it is trimmed? GAI could easily be correct and SGC could easily be wrong.

[vintagetoppsguy]

You failed to answer your question so never mind, Todd. You show your true character and I'm sure you'll get exactly what you deserve in the end - NOTHING! But hey, keep us updated as I would like to know the outcome. If you win the case, I think I will adopt your business practice - buy a card on eBay that is graded by a TPG, attempt to cross it over to another TPG and if it fails to cross over whine for my money back. After all, what would I have to lose?

[nolemmings]

Pardon me if my frustration shows in some of these later posts. I recognize that many here have not read the entire thread or have only skimmed it. Of course, no one is under any obligation to read any or all of it, or to care. Thus far, I have felt compelled to keep defending myself, when it seems that many of the points raised against me either misapprehend what I am saying, misstate it, or ignore it altogether. I am losing my compulsion to keep returning to these same points, many of which are adequately addressed by others here.

So what is the beef here pwilk--let's get you pinned down at least. To paraphrase what I mentioned earlier, if I gathered a hundred of you to review the card and everybody concluded that the card was trimmed, would that satisfy you? Or is it still too bad so sad, no returns. Many here dart back and forth on why I lose, where are you? If you think that I'm stuck whether or not I can prove it is trimmed, fine, state so, and allow me to respectfully disagree. If you feel I cannot possibly prove it to be trimmed and that I lose for that reason, say so, and again allow me to disagree. I fully understand my legal and evidentiary burdens, and I recognize that I am not always right. I think I have a case, you do not. But why not comment on the lack of customer service that caused me to neg this guy and sparked me to write this thread? Anyone.... Beuhler? Should I have given him 5 stars for communication?

As for your question, I have handled thousands of these cards over the years, and have a decent eye on what to spot. The cards are not uniform in size--there is variance-- and so specs are of limited help. When I received the card--which BTW arrived back yesterday from SGC in the GAI holder, as expected, I was concerned about it being trimmed. I wanted another set of eyes on it, and couldn't have cared less what grade it got so long as it was not trimmed. I trust SGC. Yes, I get it--they are not infallible, and if ultimately a judge or jury were to side with some other expert, I would be disappointed that SGC got it wrong. I would then "Man up" and accept the decision. As it stands, though, I believe the card is trimmed. If forced to keep it I will sell it with the notation that SGC has deemed it trimmed. If thereafter it was cracked out, submitted to PSA or Beckett and returned with a number grade I would not bid on it at any price.

[Ladder7]

Supporters of the buyer or seller, each will be overly cautious when bidding on his items.

Seller should realize, Regardless of who is right or wrong, his future sales will take knocks.

Stating the obvious, Assume all GAIs are an "A", at best.

[oldjudge]

They would essentially be on the hook for nearly double what the card initially sold for


Not sure what kind of math you are using. They charge buyers 12.5% and do not charge sellers. They would refund to the auction winner what he paid. They would give up the 12.5% the made before and, at worst, lose what the card sold for. But, since auction checks typically don't go out for almost a month after the auction ends they would still have not paid the consignor so it would not be an issue. If the auction winner informed B&L that there was a question with the lot they would withhold consignor payment until the issue was resolved.

[leaflover]

I agree. If it is still in the holder....Refund! If not still in the holder, then it's a problem.

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Well, I try to stay out of these type of skirmishes, but..............didn't Spence just buy into SGC and bring his own people over?

It's already been revealed in pretty obvious fashion that Spence and his people are in fact discriminating based on what authentication a piece is accompanied by.

GAI apparently has a bad reputation with autographs. It wouldn't shock me if GAI cards become the next target of.............."well if it's in that holder.......it must be bad".


Anyways. My simple take on the matter. If it's still in the holder....refund. If it's not........then don't.

Ahhh, great point and one that I overlooked. And I had been reading those threads- just hadn't thought of them when I posted.

I also agree with what you say- if it's still in the holder-refund. If not,....then don't (but at least try to work it out so everyone involved is satisfied * had to add that ).

Sincerely, Clayton

[vintagetoppsguy]

Seems like the OP has a history of backing out of eBay deals...

http://toolhaus.org/cgi-bin/negs?Use...ed+by&ref=home

Edited to add 3 things:
1. I have been an eBay member for 8-1/2 years and have never had a negative (over 2600+ feedback).
2. I have never backed out of an eBay deal and I have bought thousands of items.
3. It makes me wonder how many other deals the OP has backed out of and we'll never know because sellers can no longer leave negative feedback.

[Sterling Sports Auctions]

David, How many times have you left a negative feedback?

One of the big problems with the old Ebay system was that people were afraid to leave negatives for for fear of retaliation, so if you never left any there is a good chance that you never received one.

I have had 2 negatives on ebay that were retalitory from sellers that I had to drop negatives too and were shortly there after gone from ebay (this can no longer happen on ebay).

I would guess that in all your transactions they were all not positive.

If you reread Todd's original post, you will see that a very big issue is the serious lack of communication from Carter, which to me is grounds alone for a negative. The rest of this thread has just blown into this big Monster that doesn't have much to do with the fact the Carter deserves a negative for his communication skills.

I have brought up a similar type of issue with the same results. THe thread just evolves into a thread that has nothing to do with the original posts.

Bottom line to me is if Carter responds there is a very good chance we have no problem and no thread.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Huh? What does the number of negs I've left have to do with anything? You're trying to spin the situation. I'm simply pointing out that 2 of his 3 negs are for backing out of eBay deals which shows a history that is important in this matter.

But, since you asked, I have left 16 negs and 2 neutrals in my eBay history and the majority of those were in the old feedback days when the seller could leave a negative. See for yourself:

http://toolhaus.org/cgi-bin/negs?Use...ft+by&ref=home

Any more ridiculous questions about my feedback, or do you want to try to spin this another way now?

[CMIZ5290]

Please let me voice an opinion on this matter. I have purchased several cards from paul@ carterscards without a single issue. Let's face it, if you are buying a vintage gai card, you know what you are getting in to. Maybe you are lucky, maybe not. You will normally pay a fraction of the price compared to psa or sgc graded. That's the good thing. This hobby is not that simple as to think you can buy gai graded cards for $1k and then cross them to a psa or sgc grade and then get $3k for it. If he did not respond to your emails, i can understand the frustration there. Having said that, i have had very good luck with gai graded vintage cards as being the real deal. Hard to believe, but when gai first came out, their prices were bringing more than psa.

[BBSD]

Two grading services disagree and its the sellers fault. I agree its tied 1-1. If the card has been altered since the purchase why should the seller take it back, that would be terrible for him or her.

[Rich Klein]

Todd:

If this card had been graded by SGC with the same number grade as GAI, what is the worth of this card?

Rich

[nolemmings]

David, I see you remain on a witchhunt. Believe me, this bull@#$% reflects much worse on you than it does on me. Ask anyone on this board--anyone, if they have had ever had anything other than a good transaction with me. I've partnered with many here on auction lots, even with thousands on the table, without anything but good results and smooth communications. How many here have dealt with you?

Yes, six years ago a so-called buddy wanted me to bid on 1971 Mattel football set for his kid, and then "changed his mind". Not seller's problem, but when I contacted her some days later (I had bid before I left town and won while gone) she read me the riot act before I could even explain and said she would neg me. At that point, I did indeed tell her to kiss my ass and fire away. I did not respond to her neg because I did in fact refuse to pay, although I have no idea where her story came from.

Other than that, I have backed out of zero deals--ZERO.

This @#$% has gone on long enough with some of you turds. I've been dealing with friends and others on this board long before you ever thought of coming over here, and will continue to do so long after you're gone. I don't need to nor will I explain my mailing practices, my professional life or anything else beyond what I have already. You don't like it then you too can kiss my ass.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by BBSD

Two grading services disagree and its the sellers fault. I agree its tied 1-1. If the card has been altered since the purchase why should the seller take it back, that would be terrible for him or her.

BBSD,

Reading comprehension may nor be your strong suit. The card has NOT been altered since the purchase. It is exactly the same.