Beware Carterscards2006

[Robextend]

Originally Posted by novakjr

The main problem you're going to run into, is that you cannot return the item as purchased. By cracking the slab, whether done by you or SGC, you actually changed what it is. Basically, you cannot give the seller back exactly what he sent you. The slab WAS a major part of the purchase, and that has now since been compromised.

I thought we were under the impression that the slab wasn't compromised?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Robextend

I thought we were under the impression that the slab wasn't compromised?

Correct. The OP never said that the slab had been cracked. Somebody assumed that along the way and others who comment aren't reading all the posts.

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Correct. The OP never said that the slab had been cracked. Somebody assumed that along the way and others who comment aren't reading all the posts.

Sorry, yeah. I just caught up on the entire thread. As long as the card is still holdered, there shouldn't be any issues returning it. But it seems no one is 100% sure that this is the case yet though.

Anyways, assuming it's still holdered, this will again come back to the "NO REFUNDS" thing. If you bought the item after seeing that in the listing, then you technically entered into a contract with the seller, knowing that there would be "NO REFUNDS".

[scmavl]

Wow, I'd hate to be in this position, on both sides. If I was the seller and had bought the card in the GAI holder, then later sold it in the same holder, I'd feel like I'd held up my end of the bargain and should not have to refund the money. But on the buyers side, I'd hate to be stuck with an altered card.

I say resubmit to SGC/PSA/Beckett and hope for the best. Good luck.

[tiger8mush]

So if I won a SGC numerically graded card from a Brockelman & Luckey auction and sent the card to PSA (in the SGC holder) and it came back as trimmed, should Leon give me my money back?

[pgellis]

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

So if I won a SGC numerically graded card from a Brockelman & Luckey auction and sent the card to PSA (in the SGC holder) and it came back as trimmed, should Leon give me my money back?

+1

[edhans]

As Barry said earlier, sellers need to stand behind their product. Many sellers, including some prominent auction houses, like to hide behind third party graders. This auction carried an implicit warranty that the card was authentic and unaltered. If Todd fulfils that burden of proof that the card is trimmed, he is entitled to a refund. All of the other stuff about GAI and SGC, -4 or -5 and cracked or not cracked is irrelevant.

[Robextend]

Originally Posted by edhans

As Barry said earlier, sellers need to stand behind their product. Many sellers, including some prominent auction houses, like to hide behind third party graders. This auction carried an implicit warranty that the card was authentic and unaltered. If Todd fulfils that burden of proof that the card is trimmed, he is entitled to a refund. All of the other stuff about GAI and SGC, -4 or -5 and cracked or not cracked is irrelevant.

I disagree about the cracked and not cracked out part. Who is to say someone can't crack out a card and replace it with a trimmed example? This is getting a bit off topic, but if I buy a card slabbed and crack it out I am doing that knowing that there is no chance I am going to get a refund.

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by edhans

As Barry said earlier, sellers need to stand behind their product. Many sellers, including some prominent auction houses, like to hide behind third party graders. This auction carried an implicit warranty that the card was authentic and unaltered. If Todd fulfils that burden of proof that the card is trimmed, he is entitled to a refund. All of the other stuff about GAI and SGC, -4 or -5 and cracked or not cracked is irrelevant.

I think the auction carried an implicit warranty that the card was a GAI 7.5. Which it was.

[pgellis]

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

So if I won a SGC numerically graded card from a Brockelman & Luckey auction and sent the card to PSA (in the SGC holder) and it came back as trimmed, should Leon give me my money back?

For those that are on the buyer's side, can someone answer Rob's question from above?

[steve B]

Originally Posted by pgellis

For those that are on the buyer's side, can someone answer Rob's question from above?

I think it depends on the auctions terms and conditions. I haven't checked too many card auctions because most stuff in the major auctions is outside my budget.

But I get stamp auction catalogs, and they always have a full page of fine print.
Usually if you want to send something off for certification (The stamp version of slabbing more like a COA) They want that stated up front and in writing, and a certain period of time is allowed for that process. And it's all spelled out in detail.

There have been items that were certified years ago that won't pass today because the knowledge of those types of items has increased. On most expensive stuff it's advisable to get a fresh certificate. I've seen a couple that came with 3 or more certificates some dating back to the 60's.
And if a high value item won't pass certification the auction house usually makes good on it anyway.

Steve B

[edhans]

Rawn,
Please re-read my posts. I never said that the seller knew the card was trimmed. It could have been an oversight. Or perhaps the seller, like so many other sellers, simply accepted the TPG's opinion and didn't bother to examine the card closely. It doesn't matter. If it turns out that it was altered, the seller should be responsible, regardless of what holder it was in.

Ed

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

So if I won a SGC numerically graded card from a Brockelman & Luckey auction and sent the card to PSA (in the SGC holder) and it came back as trimmed, should Leon give me my money back?

anyone?

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

anyone?

The answer is no. You'd then return it to SGC(assuming it's still holdered), and get your money from them. From the SGC website.

"The SGC Guarantee

SGC Guarantees that all cards submitted shall be graded by SGC grading experts in accordance with SGC grading procedures. In the event the owner of an SGC card believes that the card has been overgraded with respect to such procedures, the owner may resubmit the card to SGC for a review of the assigned grade.

If the grade determined under such review is lower than that originally assigned to the card, SGC shall, at SGC's discretion, either replace the card or pay the difference between the current fair market value of the card at the newly established grade and the current fair market value of the grade originally assigned to such card, in the form of either cash or grading credit. Due to the volatile nature of the sportscard market and Internet auctions/sales, the selling prices in these auctions do not necessarily represent the current fair market value of any particular sportscard. SGC will determine the current fair market value of a card which is assigned a lower grade on review, based upon what SGC believes to be reliable current market information. Clerical errors with respect to the description or grade of the card(s) which would be obvious upon inspection shall not be subject to the SGC guarantee stated herein."

[pwilk17]

What if PSA says a card is trimmed and SGC swears the card is not trimmed - what then? What if SGC says a card is trimmed and GAI swears it is not trimmed? What if PRO says a card is trimmed and SGC swears it is not trimmed? What then?

[Edwolf1963]

Very interesting read! I keep going back to simple communication being the root of many problems.

The opinions of who knew what and what Carters does/does not have to do are all subject to opinion and debate. To me, it all goes back to the fact that Carters has not responded to Todd in any way. Back to Johnny's point, the silence, ignoring, hope you'll go away stuff says more to me about this situation and Carters than anything else. That doesn't help anyone or anything - it's the root cause of this issue.

Seriously, would this thread even be here if Carters were to have responded to Todd? Picked up the phone, tried to work out some sort of mutually acceptable solution? And at the end of the day if the buyer is unhappy, then make him happy - resolve the situation and give him his money back!

Is it really worth it to hang on to Todd's money and wait and see what kind of vengence he can bring? Especially since they know they'll lose anyway (it is true that "all sales final", "no refunds", etc means nothing to eBay - if he sends the card back in same case/same condition .. and SGC won't crack unless you tell them to .. Todd will win whether or not you/me/Carters agrees with it) - so why ignore him - what will that get you..??

And wouldn't we all want to do business with someone who stands behind what they sell? Will be there to at least be respectful, listen and respond if I have a question/need? Treat me as a customer as they would want to be treated in kind? To me, that's what it all comes down to. I realize there are extreme circumstances (abuse, unreasonable demands, disrespectful behavior, etc) - but for most of us, the times when a customer is unhappy and wants an exception is rare - so why not step up and resolve the situation?

One thing out of all this is that I know I will avoid Carters .. not because of opinions on who's right, whether or not they knew the card was trimmed or shill accusations, etc. .. but because they haven't at least responded to Todd. Disrespectful and says a lot about them/the kind of business they run.