JSA Story on Autographalert.com

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by steve B

The items submitted had the original certification markings removed. So they appeared as only having a certificate known to be bad - what 99% of the time? More? Who wouldn't simply reject those without looking at them?

So you're saying that if you were an authenticator you'd spend time actually looking over an autograph with a Morales cert?

Seems like a waste of time to me.

A waste of time? THEY WERE PAID FOR THAT TIME!

Not actually examining the autograph is not only "bad business practice," it is theft.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by JohnnyHarmonica

Steve, isn't his job to look at the auto and not the cert ? Isn't that why people get multiple opinions from different Doctors, Lawyers, Car repairmen, builders, plumbers, ect ect ect.

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

A waste of time? THEY WERE PAID FOR THAT TIME!

Not actually examining the autograph is not only "bad business practice," it is theft.

Some good points there to consider.

With doctors, lawyers, car repairmen etc I generally try to find someone I believe is excellent in their field so that I can trust their opinion. Fortunately I've never had a major medical or legal problem. If it was bad enough I'd get a second opinion. Crummy pop culture reference now, but the difference here strikes me as a House/Dr Nick comparison.
I do most of my own contractor type work, and very nearly all my own plumbing. I've found a couple people that are excellent, and trust their work if it's something I can't handle. The guys that seem clueless never get to the quoting part

I do think David has an excellent point, and in my first post I did say that I thought it was probably bad practice to make up reasons that something was bad to justify charging the fee.I've been convinced that it's definetly poor practice, and not something a reputable company should do. Since it was in person I'd have probably just refused it with no charge. Through the mail would be a bit harder, I can't quite figure out how that sort of rejection would need to be worded legally.
I've been offered a few autographed items in the last couple years that would have been pretty nice, but 5 minutes of research about the quality of the certificates included led me to pass on all of them.

Back to the first point, true story. We get in a bike for a tuneup. With a hole in one tire big enough for me to put 3 fingers through. So we call and tell them they need a new tire, $20 for the tire no extra charge to put it on.
An hour later the wife comes in and says the husband works on cars and says the tire is fine and does not need to be changed! I show her the giant hole by holding up the tire with my fingers through the hole. She sticks with saying it doesn't need changing. And since we won't continue without changing it she'll take it somewhere else. (Which at that point was what I wanted as well) 2 weeks later the husband comes in. With the bike and reciept from another shop. Tuneup $100 instead of our $60. Tire $50 instead of our $20. Labor to put the tire on, another $20. And it still won't shift right and the brakes are dragging. The other shop just put the new tire on and charged them. Wonders if there's anything we can do for him.
We did get him going for a minimal charge, and he's become a regular customer- And doesn't question if we say a part needs replacing


Steve Birmingham

[prewarsports]

Put on your Depends undergarments Glyn I personally would find it easier to spot a fake autograph than a trimmed card and I have about the same amount of expertise in both cards and autographs.

Someone who knows what they are doing can take a 1 second look at a forged Ruth or Mantle and tell which is real and which is not. Even the good forgeries. Literally 1 second.

Even the best card experts in the world would need black lights, measuring devices and magnification etc. They could spot a fake Wagner in 1 second, but try looking at some T206 PSA 9 that has had 1/132" laser shaved off the top border and tell me how long if ever it takes to spot that!

I am not saying 2 experts would not reach the same conclusion, but a 1 second look with the naked eye is a heck of a lot easier than a few minutes with instruments to determine which is the worthless item.

I realize it is like pissing on a forrest fire to try and convince non autograph guys anything positive about the autograph hobby, but with a ton of experience in both cards and autographs, my "OPINION" is that there are more altered cards in PSA holders than there are fake autographs with PSA/DNA stickers.

No need to start anything on my statement above, it is just an opinion and despite anyone trying to tell me it almost made them piss their pants, I will stand behind it.

Originally Posted by prewarsports

I realize it is like pissing on a forrest fire to try and convince non autograph guys anything positive about the autograph hobby, but with a ton of experience in both cards and autographs, my "OPINION" is that there are more altered cards in PSA holders than there are fake autographs with PSA/DNA stickers.

I don't find this to be at all analogous. A T206 PSA 9 that has had "1/132" laser shaved off the top border" is still an authentic card that still has value. The grade is a misrepresentation, but the card is still real and possibly still very desirable. A fake autograph is completely valueless.

I think most of us can spot totally fake cards - things made in someone's basement on a laser printer - more easily than we can spot a fake signature created in someone's basement. And I'd wager that there are more fake autographs with PSA/DNA stickers than there are fake cards in PSA holders.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by Karl Mattson

A T206 PSA 9 that has had "1/132" laser shaved off the top border" is still an authentic card that still has value

Yeah. It still has "value." What value? 1/10-1/100 the value it will actually sell for because it's been misgraded?

[shimozukawa]

Originally Posted by Karl Mattson

I don't find this to be at all analogous. A T206 PSA 9 that has had "1/132" laser shaved off the top border" is still an authentic card that still has value. The grade is a misrepresentation, but the card is still real and possibly still very desirable. A fake autograph is completely valueless.

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Yeah. It still has "value." What value? 1/10-1/100 the value it will actually sell for because it's been misgraded?

I'm guessing, given the example, that the PSA 9 T206 would have the value of a PSA9 T206. After all, the grading company would reimburse (though potentially in free grading *hit head*) the difference between the PSA9 and the "Authentic" grades for that particular issue. By contrast, the fake autograph with the sticker would have no recourse.

[David Atkatz]

You make a fine point. You stick to cards, then, and I will stay with autographs. It's a matter of taste.

(But, after fifty years, I don't need a third party to tell me what's real, and what isn't.)