JSA Story on Autographalert.com

[lharri3600]

yes it is and if my memory is still working i think it was a tv station at a show having fake autogaphs of sal bando certified.

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Isn't this the second major black eye for JSA? Wasn't there something a year or two ago about their grading of show signed material?

[barrysloate]

Larry- are you really leaving the hobby for good? That is shocking- you love collecting baseball cards.

[Rich Klein]

The person who publishes autograph alert -- google his name -- Steve Koschal.

Regards
Rich

[gnaz01]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

The person who publishes autograph alert -- google his name -- Steve Koschal.

Regards
Rich

No offense to Steve, but his fact findings are very interesting and good reading on what many people feel are the "gods" of authenticating!! I can remember going to the Atlantic City show, meeting Mickey Mantle and talking with him, and having him sign a ball. Only to take it to the Ft. Washington show to Jimmy Spence's table for him to say it wasn't authentic!! The Mick signed it in front of me while we were talking about various restaurants we had eaten at and favorite foods!! I know it is fine, but the question that begs to be asked (albeit by me), is WHO IS JAMES SPENCE to tell me my in person sigs are not real?? I have been collecting autographs for 20+ years and (personally) I collect documents (checks, ships papers, affixed seals, etc) as they lend more legitimacy to the authenticity of the autograph.

Just my 2 cents worth

[T206Collector]

Long-Term Aspirations. If you collect cards solely based on the holder or autographs solely based on the LOA, then you will run into a ton of problems eventually. Whatever you collect, you had better be confident that when the old grading/authenticating companies eventually run their course in however many years from now, that whatever grading/authenticating company that becomes the gold standard will feel comfortable slabbing/authenticating whatever you collect.

False Positives vs. False Negatives. The biggest hit I've seen on JSA with respect to False Positives has been the Sal Bando incident. I would be quite interested to see more of these "gotcha" moments, if you can find them. If there were more, I am sure they would be well publicized. Instead, what we have here are a series of "gotcha" false negatives, based on JSA's apparent prejudice against another grader. Sort of like if SGC refused to even look at PRO crossover submissions. Now, while I can somewhat understand that philosophy, I agree that JSA should take the time to look at everything for the fee they are charging.

For whatever it's worth, most of my signed collection is in SGC/JSA holders. Virtually my entire collection has come from 3 or 4 different sources, which I trust from a provenance standpoint. The signed cards that do not come from those sources were "double authenticated" by PSA/DNA and SGC/JSA before I purchased them. If another autograph authenticator becomes the industry standard, I will endeavor to have my entire collection crossed over. This is one of the reasons I have never understood collecting PSA by the POP -- I do not believe that PSA POP will always mean what it means today.

[iggyman]

Larry,

Come back! In light of new info...........It’s just a flesh wound!

Lovely Day...

[ChiefBenderForever]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Larry- are you really leaving the hobby for good? That is shocking- you love collecting baseball cards.

Just when he tries to leave, some Southern Leaguers on Ebay will pull him back in !!!!!!!!!!

As far as this JSA story, it reminds me of when O.J.s manager who had stolen a bunch of his stuff and gave it to some guys to auction and then told O.J. where they were and knew he would take the bait. This guy thought Spence would take the bait and he did, does he deserve it ? Doesn't matter,he did, he let his ego give several reason why something wasn't legit when he had before said it was. All it proves is he has the power to say yes or no and a lot of it is just an educated guess, sometimes you wonder if they just flip a coin to get an answer or even look at the stuff. Also people who submit a lot of stuff probably get everything back a yes, it's just the nature of the beast. Maybe it doesn't matter at all as long as someone believes what they have is real because an expert says it is.

[lharri3600]

well barry,
i do love collecting, all this stuff has caused me to rethink things. i remember the days when packs were purchased for the gum not the cards. yes we stashed the cards in a box but that old hard gum was the ticket! an old
bb king song comes to mind now,"The Thrill is gone." who knows maybe, just maybe, i'll be back. johnny may be right, a few slers may do the trick
love you guys and girls on 54

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Larry- are you really leaving the hobby for good? That is shocking- you love collecting baseball cards.

[barrysloate]

Well Larry, I left the hobby for the same reason...the thrill is gone for me too. But I seem to like talking about the hobby.

[drc]

I'm like Barry. I don't collect anymore (at least at the moment) but like following the stuff and reading Net54.

Forgeries don't bother me (I don't collect autographs and am not talking about that), as, to me, they're generally easy to spot. It's all the alterations for higher grade that bug me-- and something i think is harder to detect.

I think it's great people collect, and they should if they want. They should just be careful about what they collect. And the amount of money they are putting into an item should be a consideration. If you're buying a 50 cent matchbook at the antique store, there's really no worry either way. If you're spending $8,000 on a piece of cardboard that's passed through various hands, then you might have some issues to ponder.

In something like game used, if you go the extra mile to make sure your stuff is genuine (provenance, MLB holograms, photo matching), your stuff will have much higher value at resale. In the long run you will be rewarded for being picky and extra careful. Game used collectors will tell you to not go just by the LOA, even if it's from a good company.

I hope I didn't come across as preachy.

[lharri3600]

i'll do the same thing just talk about it. i'll but in here every now and then to say hey and add my $.02
as my friend in florida says,
"lovely day"

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Well Larry, I left the hobby for the same reason...the thrill is gone for me too. But I seem to like talking about the hobby.

[Anthony S.]

Just do what alot of us do, Larry. Know that grading is a silly, inexact, subjective process that brings the illusion of order to some collectors, profit to some collectors, and an unjustified sense of smug superiority to collectors like myself who prefer to collect raw.

[36GoudeyMan]

Is there any autograph authenticator we can trust?

[BobbyVCP]

These are the same guys taking control of SGC? Bad news, really bad news.

[Exhibitman]

Yech! Makes card grading look good...

[FrankWakefield]

I think I've gathered in 2 things with a JSA sticker on it. One I thought was forged, one I thought was good. The stickers I considered worthless, I peeled them off and pitched them, along with the letters. I've never bought or traded for a Fro-Joy because I don't know enough about them to have enough confidence in buying one. And some folks might use that strategy when fooling with autographs. Thanks for posting this. Still, folks that have based their collection upon JSA certification won't be swayed... and this isn't a 'black eye', it's a fell knock out.

[srs1a]

The person who publishes autograph alert -- google his name -- Steve Koschal.

Very interesting indeed.

[Peter_Spaeth]

This quote seemed worth reproducing, from one of the websites that pops up on a google search.

"One look at his website and what he has for sale make Coaches Corner look like Sotheby's."

[D. Bergin]

Why is it the guys who are loudest about exposing these types of things, often end up being just as shady, if not more-so then the things they are exposing?

Is it narcissism, or a true pursuit of the greater good?

Tangled webs.........and all that.

[Ladder7]

Originally Posted by BobbyVCP

These are the same guys taking control of SGC? Bad news, really bad news.

The report certainly doesn't help PSA/DNA either.

From now on, Im sending my stuff to David.