How to tell a Koester Bread from an E121 or W575?

[bigfish]

Could you post a back scan?

[rhettyeakley]

The Brown card was easy because he was only found in the Koesters set--he wasn't printed at all by the American Caramel Co. as part of either the E121 series of 80 or 120.

The Hoyt was printed in both sets. The fact that they were found together probably means that the Hoyt is in fact a Koesters card (blank backed) but it is also entirely possible that the Hoyt could have an American Caramel back if it were to be soaked--as I can't tell through the thick paper if there is any printing on the back. So in short likely a Koester's card BUT it could be a E121 Series of 80 (if it is somewhat thicker) or E121 Series of 120 if the card is thinner (120 series was printed on thinner stock than the series of 80).

-Rhett

[dougscats]

So, can I take it that these cards are safe to soak?
[I know, for instance, that T206's and their kind are safe to soak.]

Any particular instructions/advice, particularly when drying?

I know there's always some risk, but the gamble is surely worth if it can be done. I'd appreciate anyone with knowledge in this area weighing in.

Thanks.

Doug

[rhettyeakley]

I'd be very careful if you did soak it because the E121's don't soak as well as some cards do. Also, you need to be aware that the ink on the extra paper on back will likely stain the card on back so I'd probably advise against it altogether. Whenever a card has been pasted right on top of ink on the paper it will run the risk of staining.

If you do put it up or auction here on this site I'd be more interested in it as is than if you soaked it.

[dougscats]

Thanks again, Rhett, and I'm listening to you.

Perhaps using an iron might work? [I can remember doing postage stamps that way when I was a kid.]--maybe dampening a handkerchief and putting it between the back of the card and the iron?

Maybe I should send it to a pro?--there are such, I believe, and right here on Net54--Maybe I should post another message, asking for such?

Rhett, you say you'd rather buy it as is, and I'd rather sell it that way.
But how much is the card worth: 1. If it's [relatively] conclusive that it is a Koester's Bread [if the paper on the back is removed and it's not an E121]? 2. If it's as is, where there is some circumstancial evidence that it is a Koester's but one can't be certain--How much are you willing to gamble on that?

I tried to check prices, but I'm not a VIP member and couldn't find out.

So, let's say I leave it as is. I'm not sure I want to put it up for auction as such. But I will field offers. You can post one or send me a pm while I decide what to do.

Again, I appreciate the board's help and expertise.

[brianp-beme]

I am not familiar with the Koester issue, having never owned an example, but I had great success soaking a group of E121's, mostly 80 series, a few years back. I also have had E120's that were a bear and caused back damage havoc when I soaked them...I think it was the glue used that caused the difference in how they soaked. Like Rhett has mentioned that ink writing might transfer onto the cards. The E121's I soaked were pasted onto red-lined ledger paper, and well, the cards now have red lined backs. Fortunately they were all trimmed, so those red lines almost add to their overall appeal.

Brian

[fkw]

use a wet tissue, dabbing the back and get just the scrapbook paper and glue wet, try to keep from completely soaking the card. I have had the scrapbook paper slide right off easily sometimes because the glue was just a paste.

The word "Soak" is misleading....


PS Doesnt the Ed Brown card have the "Outf" caption making it different from a W575-1?? The Hoyt doesnt have such a design change...

Edited to add.... this info from the 2005 post will answer your Hoyt question.. "On the W575-1, Hoyts name and team is on the side where Hoyts face is at, and the Koesters Hoyts name and team is on the side where his lifted leg is on."