JSA Story on Autographalert.com

[David Atkatz]

Christ Almighty! "I'm so glad I never got involved with autographs!"
Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater!

The problem is not with the "hobby"--one, which, BTW, has preserved a vast amount of historical information we rely on today. Rather, the problem is with self-proclaimed experts working solely for profit, and, even more so, the uneducated collectors who rely on them.

[oriolesbb6]

Would love to hear a JSA response.........

[David Atkatz]

Who cares what they have to say? STOP LISTENING TO THEM!

[oriolesbb6]

I"m not sure I care but sure would be entertaining...

[oriolesbb6]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Christ Almighty! "I'm so glad I never got involved with autographs!"
Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater!

The problem is not with the "hobby"--one, which, BTW, has preserved a vast amount of historical information we rely on today. Rather, the problem is with self-proclaimed experts working solely for profit, and, even more so, the uneducated collectors who rely on them.

Funny your avatar is an autographed baseball.....Thats entertaining as well

[David Atkatz]

You miss my point completely. I was quoting others on this thread. I am, if I do say so myself, an educated autograph collector--2011 will mark fifty years of collecting.

(And that 1927 Yankees baseball is one of the centerpieces of my collection.)

[oriolesbb6]

Probably did, but I am easily entertained.....

[Bilko G]

For the vast majority buying and selling autographs has just come down to buying and selling certs. It seems like the actual autograph doesn't mean much anymore, its the cert that means everything. If its certified authentic by PSA or JSA its money in the bank it seems.

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by Bilko G

For the vast majority buying and selling autographs has just come down to buying and selling certs. It seems like the actual autograph doesn't mean much anymore, its the cert that means everything. If its certified authentic by PSA or JSA its money in the bank it seems.

Unfortunately, you're right. However, everyone should remember that third-party authentication is an expert opinion only. If one expects zero errors, they will be disappointed. However, I would like to point out that, while there have been unexcusable (and hopefully rare) "false positives" in the past, these cases are "false negatives," and I would prefer authentication companies to err on that side if at all.

I will echo an earlier poster and lament the far-reaching effect that Morales, STAT, and Coaches Corner are having on the hobby. Absolutely terrible.

In the end, while I have seen many shout "buy the card, not the holder" when it comes to grading, we have to remember to do the same with autos, although legitimacy itself is far less subjective than any grade.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by mighty bombjack

I will echo an earlier poster and lament the far-reaching effect that Morales, STAT, and Coaches Corner are having on the hobby. Absolutely terrible.

They are not the problem, and they've had no effect on the hobby, IMHO.
No "collector" buys their garbage. No one who is a member here, for example, is fooled by their crap.
The problem, again, IMO, is the total reliance placed upon the opinions of the "legitimate" authenticators, to the exclusion of all else. (Especially to the work required to develop and advance one's own expertise.)

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

You miss my point completely. I was quoting others on this thread. I am, if I do say so myself, an educated autograph collector--2011 will mark fifty years of collecting.

(And that 1927 Yankees baseball is one of the centerpieces of my collection.)

Would you ever sell it without a cert from JSA or PSA?

[David Atkatz]

If I were to sell it, absolutely. No one who knows anything about autographs, would doubt its authenticity. And if someone wasn't interested because Jimmy Spence hadn't vetted it, so be it.
BTW, I was, years ago, offered $60,000 for it by a collector--with no cert. I didn't sell it. It will pass to my children.

[ibuysportsephemera]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Christ Almighty! "I'm so glad I never got involved with autographs!"
Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater!

The problem is not with the "hobby"--one, which, BTW, has preserved a vast amount of historical information we rely on today. Rather, the problem is with self-proclaimed experts working solely for profit, and, even more so, the uneducated collectors who rely on them.

No need to attack me David...I am allowed my opinion. My statement was about a decision I made at the beginning of my collecting career. I felt uncomfortable making large financial decisions about autographs that I was not present at when they were signed. I decided that I could do without that part of the hobby. If you are 100% comfortable with your knowledge and experience, more power to you. I just didn't want to deal with the doubt.

Jeff

[prewarsports]

If you know what you are doing, autographs are as safe as any other hobby where lots of money changes hand. Cards on the other hand can be bleached, trimmed, glue removed, paper added, etc. At least any potential issues with an autograph are out there to be seen by the naked eye! With any hobby, you buy from people you trust who will stand behind the item forever and that is your comfort, not the 3rd party!

[David Atkatz]

You know, Jeff, every time there's a posting about some "authenticator's" massive f*ck-up, someone (or two, or three...) will post about how happy he is not getting involved with autographs, and implying, of course, that anyone who does is a fool. It's gotten real old, real quickly.
Autographic material is one of the most important--if not the most important--historical reference. We are all indebted to those, throughout the centuries, who have preserved it, passed it on, and made it available to museums, archives, and universities.
The idea that it's only good "if I've seen it signed myself," is as patently absurd as if those on the other side of this board were saying a card is only good "if I've seen it printed myself."
If, by your own admission you know very little about something, it may behoove you to refrain from publicly commenting about it.

[ibuysportsephemera]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

You know, Jeff, every time there's a posting about some "authenticator's" massive f*ck-up, someone (or two, or three...) will post about how happy he is not getting involved with autographs, and implying, of course, that anyone who does is a fool. It's gotten real old, real quickly.
Autographic material is one of the most important--if not the most important--historical reference. We are all indebted to those, throughout the centuries, who have preserved it, passed it on, and made it available to museums, archives, and universities.
The idea that it's only good "if I've seen it signed myself," is as patently absurd as if those on the other side of this board were saying a card is only good "if I've seen it printed myself."
If, by your own admission you know very little about something, it may behoove you to refrain from publicly commenting about it.

David, I do not want to make this personal, but you apparently do. I have collected sports memorabilia for 25 years, not quite your 50 years but enough to know a thing or 2 about the hobby. I never implied anything at all. I know many autograph collectors that I have a great deal of respect for, and I have had the same debate with them.

Also, where did I write that I didn't know anything about autographs? I just said that I made the decision to not include them in my collection. Sorry, but I think that your foolish if you think that you can tell with 100 percent certainty that each and every autograph is real (if you haven't seen it signed in front of you). If you weren't there, you can't guarantee it with 100% certainty, sorry. You might be 99.99% sure, but you can't guarantee it, period. With clubhouse signatures, secretarial and spouse signers, not to mention devious forgers, there are no 100 percent guarantees. That is my opinion, not about you directly (or other knowledgeable collectors) but about that segment of the hobby in general.

BTW, If you haven't read the book Operation Bullpen, do yourself a favor and pick it up.

Jeff

[David Atkatz]

Fine. Then don't collect. Everyone get's fooled sometime. The more you know, though, the less likely that is. I'll settle for being right 99.99% of the time. ;-)
Of course, there is 100% certainty with your "sports ephemera," isn't there?
And I have read it, Jeff. Anyone fooled by Greg Marino's garbage knew nothing about autographs.

[ibuysportsephemera]

David,

I wish you good luck with your collecting endeavors.

Jeff

[David Atkatz]

As Voltaire said, "Chance (luck) favors the prepared mind."
But thanks, anyway.