Foxx vs Gehrig

[MooseWithFleas]

Originally Posted by Mark

Sisler's prime was super-prime.

If we wanted to come up with a super-prime category, Sisler had two seasons that fit that mold

1920: .407/.449/.632, 19 HR, 122 RBI, 137 runs, 181 OPS+, 11.2 WAR
1922: .420/.467/.594, 8 HR, 105 RBI, 134 runs, 170 OPS+, 8.7 WAR

If we look at Bagwell, he had four seasons that fit that mold. One of which being historic (and unfortunately cut short)

1994: .368/.451/.750, 39 HR, 116 RBI, 104 runs, 213 OPS+, 7.8 WAR (In 110 games )
1996: .315/.451/.570, 31 HR, 120 RBI, 111 runs, 178 OPS+, 7.7 WAR
1997: .286/.425/.592, 43 HR, 135 RBI, 109 runs, 168 OPS+, 8.3 WAR
1999: .304/.454/.591, 42 HR, 126 RBI, 143 runs, 162 OPS+, 8.2 WAR

Then you have all the years after age 30 that Bagwell dominates Sisler.


Frank Thomas super-prime is just plain scary. Ray Flowers did some analysis on first four seasons amongst major league players. Only two people resulted in a higher offensive output than The Big Hurt. They were Babe Ruth (once converted from pitcher) and Ted Williams. Keep in mind his WAR is negatively effected by his poor defense (this is why I keep him below Bagwell). If Thomas turned in even average defense at first, he would have posted 10 WAR seasons, which is insane in the modern era.

1991: .318/.453/.553, 32 HR, 109 RBI, 104 runs, 180 OPS+, 7.8 WAR
1992: .323/.439/.536, 24 HR, 115 RBI, 108 runs, 174 OPS+, 7.7 WAR
1993: .317/.426/.607, 41 HR, 128 RBI, 106 runs, 177 OPS+, 6.7 WAR
1994: .353/.487/.729, 38 HR, 101 RBI, 106 runs, 211 OPS+, 7.3 WAR
1997: .347/.456/.611, 35 HR, 125 RBI, 110 runs, 181 OPS+, 7.3 WAR

Again, that 1994 season was only in 113 games. That season had so many historic seasons cut short and it's a damn shame.

Sisler had a very nice prime and two extremely special seasons, but by no means unique as shown by Bagwell and Thomas's similarly great seasons. Their longevity makes them significantly better overall. If Sisler was known to be one of the best fielding 1B's of his time, it might bump him up to the 9-11 range, but the consensus is that he was league average in the field. That makes his career comps Dick Allen, Will Clark, and Rod Carew (if you choose to view him as a 1B and not 2B).

[Mark]

For the last four years of the deadball era, Sisler was an outstanding hitter. He was among the league leaders in on base %, slugging &, batting average each season. Then, when the live or rabbit ball was introduced, he jumped into another gear and surpassed even Cobb in hitting for 3 years. Unfortunately for Bagwell, he "bulked up" and became especially productive during the heart of the steroid era, and there are some who hold that against him. I happen to think that he was a great hitter in his own right and that he belongs in the Hall of Fame. But I am also extremely impressed by Sisler's work, especially when we factor in the difficulty of hitting prior to 1920.

[Touch'EmAll]

At one time or another, Foxx played 8 different positions. The only position he did not play was 2nd Base. Foxx even pitched - and was effective.

How many other players in the entire history of baseball played 8 positions?

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

How many other players in the entire history of baseball played 8 positions?

These guys all played 9 positions... in a single game:


Cesar Tovar of the Twins, Bert Campenaris of the Athletics, Jose Oquendo of the St. Louis Cardinals, Scott Shelden of the Rangers, and Shane Halter of the Tigers.