The Value of the 8.5 Grade--One of My Largest Trades Ever

[botn]

Jim,

In terms of quantity there very well could be more mid grade altered cards than high grade altered cards because of the volume of mid grade cards in population. However I think the percentage of high grade altered cards is much larger than the percentage of mid grade cards. The payoff is much greater, in most instances, in the high grade market. I feel this is not a problem just at PSA but plagues SGC as much. I turn over a lot of material each year so I get to see more than most.

As I stated earlier, the hobby would change materially if collectors really wanted to know if their cards were messed with but as you point out, and has been my experience too, collectors don't really want to know. And that extends to mid grade collectors as well. See no evil...

Therein lies the problem. None of the grading companies need to be accountable. When they slab a bad card nobody is asking them to make it right. Cards are not fiat money and only have value because the next collector believes the same. If PSA or SGC were to go under I think most in the hobby would approach buying in a different manner. In many instances there is too much faith placed on the flip.

Greg

[Davalillo]

Greg,

I trust you are right on your observations about high grade vs mid grade.

I gree with you on your point that collectors don't want to know. I remember when a coLlector who i know by name but have not met King Yao had
Kevin Saucier look at all his most important cards to tell him which were tampered with and which weren't. I don't think he could understand why I did not want to do the same.
I just don't want to know.

Jim

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by Davalillo

... to tell him which were tampered with and which weren't. I don't think he could understand why I did not want to do the same.
I just don't want to know.

Jim

Jim, if a few of your slabbed cards were found to be tampered with in some way, would PSA pay you "market value" for them? If so, would this encourage you to allow Kevin to look at them?

Rob

[glynparson]

are not the problem. If it were simply a case of trimming the card to make it an 8 they wouldn't be low pop. Often its something more sinister like painitng to remove print, erasing things. then retouching the erasures, rebuilding tears. the problems are vast and far more than just trimming which is a real problem in all cards raw and graded. mid grade through high. lowergrade cards ofen have ink or pen removed or sometimes even glue, there is no grade of card immune to doctoring it just matters more on the high end so that's where the best guys go because thats where the most $ is.

[Davalillo]

Rob,

I assume so but you get back to the point that Greg makes about tyhe willingness to take cards out of the holder......

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by glynparson

are not the problem. If it were simply a case of trimming the card to make it an 8 they wouldn't be low pop.

It is not necessarily an easy thing to trim a card and get it past a grading service, so I am not sure this assumption is correct. Certainly there is similar incentive to get a low pop common into an 8 holder as to get a HOF card into one, given the prices they can command.

[Touch'EmAll]

The value of an 8.5 is worth what someone will pay - some will pay big premium because of their registry set. I have no registry set (more a type collector) so I won't pay big premium for the 8.5

If you kinda think of it logically, there should be a whole lot more +1/2's, but from the bump stat percentages I hear, I figure more should be bumped and are not. This leads me to believe it is more of a marketing ploy by PSA.

[shimozukawa]

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[barrysloate]

Hey Jim- sorry I forgot you were mentioned in the book. I read it last year and I guess I just didn't remember.

[bbeck]

In reality, there may be more high end pre-war PSA/SGC collectors on this board then one might think. Some may choose anonymity. Tough to make blanket assumptions regarding pocketbooks and collections. The longer the thread continues, my statement of being a realist seems to hold water, even with Jim Crandell.-Bob Beck