Appease me, please....one more time T206/T213/T215?

[Abravefan11]

Rob - I think Burdick as several others have said grouped the Type 1's separate from the T206 because the Type 2 and 3 cards existed. If there were no Type 2 or 3 then Type 1's would be part of the T206 set. So in my opinion he got the designation correct but for the wrong reason.

[caramelcard]

Fair enough, but wouldn't you suggest that T213-1 are closer to T206 than to T213-2 and T213-3?

[FrankWakefield]

I think that T213-3's seem 'closer' to T206's. And I don't at all think that T213-3's should be in with T206's.

At least with the -3's, the paper is the same, the caption is of the same style, and the front artwork is identical. With the -1's there is the paper difference.

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by caramelcard

Fair enough, but wouldn't you suggest that T213-1 are closer to T206 than to T213-2 and T213-3?

This is where I think I view things a little differently than some. T213-1's are closer to "looking like" a T206 in all facets of it's composition than -2 and -3, but if it was not printed concurrently as part of the same set it's no more a T206 than either of the other two.

If we had the stones, paper, and equipment we could reproduce the images today and they would look and feel just like a T206, but I doubt anyone would say they are part of the set. This is why I feel putting so much emphasis on the appearance of the cards and how closely they do or don't resemble each other is not nearly as important as how the printing procedure and subject groups that make up the sets differ from T206.

[tedzan]

Sorry to chime in again, but what factual evidence do you have as proof of this......

" ...... but if it was not printed concurrently as part of the same set it's no more a T206 than either of the other two. "


The Standard Catalog dates this set as being issued in 1910 (as did Burdick). Over the years many of us "T206 dudes"
doing research on these cards have established that the 1910 COUPON set was very likel printed and issued during the
Summer of 1910.

Would you say that the was in the peak production period of the T206 set ?

Indeed it was, as this was the period that the 350 series was in production. And, I do not think you will deny that the
350 series of cards are the most plentiful of all the T206's.


TED Z

[FrankWakefield]

I think that Piedmont, Sovereign, Sweet Caporal... those were the regular production product for ATT. Coupons were a lesser product. They got the hand-me-downs. They didn't get their thinner cards until later in the process. Wouldn't surprise me if Coupon didn't get their cards until the first line companies started inserting the 460 series cards.

What seems contemporaneous to us 100 years later may well have been a few months apart at the time.

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

Coupons were a lesser product. They got the hand-me-downs.

Frank I agree with this and it makes more sense to me that the Coupon set was comprised of existing images from the T206 set to save costs rather than ALC and ATC deviated from their T206 printing process only for this product.

[tedzan]

Tim

You have to be careful with this premise of yours, as it has an underlying fallacy......
"The proof again for me is that at no time in the T206 run did they print both 150-350 and 350 Only subjects at the same time."


From the printer's viewpoint at American Litho (ALC), in the Summer of 1910, all 48 Southern Lger's (SL) were no longer 150/350
subjects. They were simply 350 series subjects, since ALC had then switched to printing PIEDMONT 350 backs on all 48 SL cards.

Recall, that one factor that we both agree on is....that ALC pre-printed sheets with the front images. The backs of these sheets
were blank, awaiting ALC's printing of the various T-brands (as the demand from the various tobacco Factory's came in). Actually,
as far as the printer was concerned, these pre-printed sheets had NO series identification, since they were blank-backed.

Since the COUPON Tobacco Co. was a new acquisition by ATC, they most likely cobbled together in a hurry this COUPON set to get
these cards out to the New Orleans factory. So, some smart designer at ALC checked-out the Sporting News (or a Reach BB Guide)
and selected 20 ballplayers (from the 48 Southern Lger's) that played in the Southern Association.....and, included them along with
the 48 Major Leaguers to create the T213-1 set. It's simply as neat as that. It's not "Rocket Science"


TED Z

[Abravefan11]

Ted - The proof again for me is that at no time in the T206 run did they print both 150-350 and 350 Only subjects at the same time.

As you know T206's began as preprinted sheets of front images that then had the back brands applied to them. This process is what helps us connect different back brands and trace the timeline and order of the T206 run.

No back brand in the T206 set contains both 150-350 subjects and 350 only printed on the same sheet so the preprinted sheets of front images could only be for Coupon Type 1's and not any other T206 back brand.

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by tedzan

The Standard Catalog dates this set as being issued in 1910 (as did Burdick). Over the years many of us "T206 dudes"
doing research on these cards have established that the 1910 COUPON set was very likel printed and issued during the
Summer of 1910.

Would you say that the was in the peak production period of the T206 set ?

Indeed it was, as this was the period that the 350 series was in production. And, I do not think you will deny that the
350 series of cards are the most plentiful of all the T206's.

TED Z

Sorry I neglected to answer your questions. Yes I agree the 350 series was the height of production in the T206 set. With that said I'm not sure what that would prove.

Concerning the "T206 dudes" I would have to know why they believe the Coupon Type 1 set was printed in the summer of 1910 to speak to that specifically.