Which pre-war stars could play today?

[dabigyankeeman]

Originally Posted by DanP

I didn't even think of that (lefty pitchers). You're probably right. At least Lefty Grove and Carl Hubbell and I'm sure many other lefty pitchers could play today.

Dont forget one of the greatest left-handed pitchers of all time, BABE RUTH.

This to me is why Ruth was so incredibly great. The man was one of the absolute best pitchers in baseball, then went on to hit more home runs in a year than any other team did that year. Put that in a movie and nobody would believe it. Yes, Ruth could play today.

[prewarsports]

Short answer ALL OF THEM could play today!

Bigger and stronger does not mean better. If Billy Wagner at 5' 9" can throw 100 MPH out of sheer God Given ability are we really to assume that guys born 100 years ago couldn't because they didn't have Gatorade?

Is Ichiro any different than Cobb, is he any bigger faster or stronger?

Is Tim Lincecum any bigger/faster/stronger than the pitchers of 100 years ago?

Jays argument is the one I always make. 100 years ago there were 16 MLB teams that EVERY kid athlete in the world wanted to be on. Today there are about 200 pro sports teams that divide kids up at young ages between the sports. Example, Collin Kaepernick (Nevada's College Qaurterback) could throw 99 MPH as a High Schooler but chose Football. That would not have happened in the past and he would have been right there competing with every other kid in America for the few Baseball spots.

100% EVERY star Baseball player of the prewar era could play in the Major Leagues today.

To me the better argument would be can any of todays playes make the transition back 100 years ago and be any good. That would be a much tougher task than the players of yesterday suddenly being given better equipment/facilities/salary/lifestyle and asking them to perform!

Rhys

[sayhey24]

Have to agree with all the posters that they would all be top flight stars in today's game. I'm actually surprised that anyone would think otherwise. Can you imagine what Ruth, Gehrig, Crawford and Hornsby would do against expansion era pitching? Very good points made too about the top athletes all playing baseball back then, and how much stronger pitchers were then.

One point that should be made in fairness to the other side of the argument is that pre-war players were not competing against African American and Latin American players.

Greg

[FrankWakefield]

This thread is obviously on the wrong board, 'cause it looks like everyone is pretty much in agreement, even me. Can't have that here!

Mentioning Lincecum reminds me of what I thought when I first saw him pitch. If you cut the hair you have an old fashioned ballplayer. He leans a bit to get the delivery point higher, has old arm extension, stride, pivot, follow through... he looks like he should be in flannel, with sweat soaked sleeves. The kid is from a previous generation, or three, in style. A stout-hearted pitcher, as mentioned in that poem at the beginning of a chapter in The Glory of Their Times.

[D. Broughman]

Tinkers to Evers to Chance on artificial grass. I would love to see the look on there faces the first time the ball came to them

[Orioles1954]

Due to systematic racism and the lack of an international pool of talent, we have to take that into account when determining just "how great" the players of the pre-1947 big leagues were. There's NO doubt that football and basketball players of today are eons better than their peers, not so sure about baseball though....that's what makes it so great.

[tbob]

Satchell Page would be the best pitcher in baseball.
Page, Grove, Alexander and Johnson would make the Phillies 2011 staff look like pipsqueaks.

[Mollys Dad]

IMO todays players are a bunch of pampered sissies enjoying the benefit of athletic engineering, free agency and disgustingly obese salaries when compared to the players of yesteryear.

On the back of Gil Hodges 1952 Topps card, after the brief sport bio, the last line on the cards says that Gil sells clothing in the off season. Tell me a guy like that wouldnt trump the players of today.

[prewarsports]

In response to the racism argument, Black Men were playing MORE baseball back then than now, by far, and it actually helps the argument. Just because they were excluded by the Major Leagues does not mean we dont know who they were, and they absolutely belong in the argument. Gibson, Paige, Bell, Leonard, etc. all would be stars today and the fact that they did not play in the Major Leagues does not really mean anything when assessing pure talent. The black talent 100 years ago was better than today because now they would be wearing Kobe and "D-Wade" jerseys and refusing to play such a "boring" game like most kids across this Country.

Rhys

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by prewarsports

In response to the racism argument, Black Men were playing MORE baseball back then than now, by far, and it actually helps the argument. Just because they were excluded by the Major Leagues does not mean we dont know who they were, and they absolutely belong in the argument. Gibson, Paige, Bell, Leonard, etc. all would be stars today and the fact that they did not play in the Major Leagues does not really mean anything when assessing pure talent. The black talent 100 years ago was better than today because now they would be wearing Kobe and "D-Wade" jerseys and refusing to play such a "boring" game like most kids across this Country.

Rhys

Hey Rhys,

Systematic racism absolutely does not detract from the quality of Negro League players. HOWEVER, can we really say how well Ruth, Cobb, etc. would translate it today's game when they never played against African-Americans or the Latin American influx of big league talent? I know we tend to romanticize the past, but there's nothing wrong in realizing the limitations of pre-1947 big league baseball. Just something to think about.

[bigtrain]

I recall reading that in the late 40s, Feller's fastball was clocked at 98 mph using a device that was used to measure the velocity of artillery shells. This measurement was as the ball crossed the plate, not as it left his hand, so it probably more like 100 mph. Even considering that the measuring device may have been less accurate than modern technology, that is some heat. And that was Feller slightly past his prime. I would think that guys like Paige and Johnson had similar speed.

[wrapperguy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMPxpOapRuU

That catcher is scared shitless!

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by prewarsports

Short answer ALL OF THEM could play today!

Bigger and stronger does not mean better. If Billy Wagner at 5' 9" can throw 100 MPH out of sheer God Given ability are we really to assume that guys born 100 years ago couldn't because they didn't have Gatorade?

Is Ichiro any different than Cobb, is he any bigger faster or stronger?

Is Tim Lincecum any bigger/faster/stronger than the pitchers of 100 years ago?

Jays argument is the one I always make. 100 years ago there were 16 MLB teams that EVERY kid athlete in the world wanted to be on. Today there are about 200 pro sports teams that divide kids up at young ages between the sports. Example, Collin Kaepernick (Nevada's College Qaurterback) could throw 99 MPH as a High Schooler but chose Football. That would not have happened in the past and he would have been right there competing with every other kid in America for the few Baseball spots.


100% EVERY star Baseball player of the prewar era could play in the Major Leagues today.

To me the better argument would be can any of todays playes make the transition back 100 years ago and be any good. That would be a much tougher task than the players of yesterday suddenly being given better equipment/facilities/salary/lifestyle and asking them to perform!

Rhys

As usual, Rhys is spot on! I completely agree.

[John V]

Dan P and Backstroke are right on the money. Today's athletes are bigger, better, stronger. IMO, very few if any of our pre-war heroes would have a chance in today's game.

[Mark]

Originally Posted by John V

Dan P and Backstroke are right on the money. Today's athletes are bigger, better, stronger. IMO, very few if any of our pre-war heroes would have a chance in today's game.

If that's true, it makes little sense for you to regard them as your heroes.

[cubsfn01]

I would think that the pre-war stars may not even make it on the field, if they were playing a all star game against the best of the 21st century. The minute someone told them the game would be played at Wrigley Field, Ruth would blurt out, "they are still using that freaking dump?", and all the old timers would be laughing so hard they would get back in the time machine and go home!!

[rhettyeakley]

Ask Ruben Sierra how getting bigger and stronger helped out his baseball career.

[DanP]

Originally Posted by Mark

If that's true, it makes little sense for you to regard them as your heroes.

Saying they couldn't compete in today's game has no bearing on whether we should call them heroes. Personally I've never considered any baseball player (or any other professional athlete) a hero not even when I was a kid.

It's not even close to fair comparing them to players from today, just a fun topic of discussion.

Dan

[Mark]

Originally Posted by DanP

Saying they couldn't compete in today's game has no bearing on whether we should call them heroes. Personally I've never considered any baseball player (or any other professional athlete) a hero not even when I was a kid.

It's not even close to fair comparing them to players from today, just a fun topic of discussion.

Dan

I don't think there's much fun to be had in a discussion if no one learns anything from it.