Blyleven & Alomar get in the HOF

[barrysloate]

I was thinking the same thing. If Mazeroski didn't hit that home run he's probably not in the Hall of Fame.

[Touch'EmAll]

So where do you put Blyleven on a ranking scale for his era?

Was he the most dominant pitcher?

Was he the second most dominant pitcher of his era?

Was he the 10th most dominant pitcher of his era?

Lets see: He needs to be ranked with Carlton, Seaver, Ryan, Palmer, Sutton, Eckersly, Jack Morris, Dave Stewart, Luis Tiant, Fergie Jenkins, Gaylord Perry - I know I am forgetting a few.

But do honestly rank Blyleven up there with the Best of the Best??

Come on, answer is not quite.

[Robextend]

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

Lets see: He needs to be ranked with Carlton, Seaver, Ryan, Palmer, Sutton, Eckersly, Jack Morris, Dave Stewart, Luis Tiant, Fergie Jenkins, Gaylord Perry - I know I am forgetting a few.

Well as far as that list goes I put Carlton, Seaver, Ryan, Palmer, Jenkins and Perry ahead of Blyleven. It can certainly be argued that he was better than Sutton, Morris or Tiant. And although Dave Stewart was a very good pitcher, he isn't in the same league as those other guys. During the era in which those guys pitched Eckersley was a SP, and he is in the HOF because of his days as a RP so I don't think Eck should be in this argument.

[Touch'EmAll]

All I am saying is if Blyleven is, say, the 6th (give or take) most dominant pitcher of his era - does that give him HOF credentials?

Does the 6th most domnant center fielder of the era get in HOF?

Does the 6th most dominant shortstop of the era get in HOF?

Does the 6th most dominant catcher of the era get in HOF?

At some point you have to draw the line.

[Anthony S.]

Pitchers make up a minimum of 40% of every roster (50% of a roster is you have a 4 game series at Coors Field). Being the 6th most dominant pitcher of an era means a heck of a lot more than being the 6th best catcher of an era.

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

All I am saying is if Blyleven is, say, the 6th (give or take) most dominant pitcher of his era - does that give him HOF credentials?

Does the 6th most domnant center fielder of the era get in HOF?

Does the 6th most dominant shortstop of the era get in HOF?

Does the 6th most dominant catcher of the era get in HOF?

At some point you have to draw the line.

[Touch'EmAll]

Point taken - yes, pitchers should have a higher percentage in HOF.

But really folks, Blyleven is now in - but Roger Maris, a two time MVP and holder of one of the most hallowed records in all of sports (pre-juice era) is not in HOF ??? Maris is not famous enough - after all, its called the hall of "FAME."

I did see Blyleven in person when he pitched for the Angels. He had one of smoothest deliveries of any pitcher I ever saw - smooth as silk. And yes, lifetime shutout numbers point in his favor.

[Robextend]

Roger Maris should be in an individual achievement HOF for his 61HR season, but his overall numbers are far from HOF worthy.

[oldjudge]

TBob--Are you on drugs?

"I think that put in to perspective the spitting incident shouldn't have kept the best 2b of his time out of the Hall."


What second baseman are you talking about? Certainly not Alomar. What about Hornsby, Lajoie, Collins, Morgan, Robinson, Frisch, Gehringer?

[Anthony S.]

Tbob said best of "his time" not "all-time."

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

All I am saying is if Blyleven is, say, the 6th (give or take) most dominant pitcher of his era - does that give him HOF credentials?

Does the 6th most domnant center fielder of the era get in HOF?

Does the 6th most dominant shortstop of the era get in HOF?

Does the 6th most dominant catcher of the era get in HOF?

At some point you have to draw the line.

That is a silly argument, take a look at your average team roster, what percent of the roster is made up of 1st Basemen? There is usually one and a Utility player to fill the holes when needed. Look at the team pitching corp--Pitchers make up nearly half a teams roster, so why would you compare it to any single position in the field? Totally apples & oranges here.

[nolemmings]

I'm biased in favor of Bert, who not only didn't pitch in the AL East but who also was not widely liked by the media--he was far from the affable fellow on TV these days. Still, 60 shutouts just doesn't lie, especially with that many strikeouts. That's a guy taking the mound and you not being able to do a damn thing to beat him, oftentimes not even to put the ball in play. That is dominant, IMO.

Blyleven had one fewer shutout than Nolan Ryan and Tom Seaver, and more than Gibson and Carlton--only 4 deadball pitchers and Warren Spahn (63) had more. He finished in the top 5 in WHIP seven times, ERA seven times and Ks/Ws thirteen times. Compare Carlton 5-5-7, Seaver 9-7-7, Palmer 6-10-1 and Jenkins 4-0-9.

Count me among those who places little on All-Star appearances, especially for pitchers and during an era when at least one team had to have a representative. On Bert's teams, this meant Carew and Stargell/Parker for the first 11 seasons of his career, and Puckett for several more later. Of the four seasons he played in Cleveland, Bert made the game once and should have made it a second time, 1984, when his season numbers were better than four of the five starters--only Boddicker had him in wins 20 to 19 (although Boddicker had 2 more losses) and ERA 2.79 to 2.87--and where one, White Sox lone representative Richard Dotson, finished under .500 with an ERA of 3.59. At the end of his career in Anaheim, he had another All Star year, going 17-5 with a 2.73 ERA and league-leading 5 shutouts at age 38. These numbers were stronger than any of the All-Star starters other than World Champion A's Dave Stewart and Mike Moore. No All-Star game for Bert then either. Big deal.