Blyleven & Alomar get in the HOF

[chaddurbin]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Barry--Why so much emphasis on strikeouts? An out is an out. If you are a ground ball pitcher with a 3.50 ERA are you any different than a strikeout pitcher with a 3.50 ERA?

strikeout is more valuable than a groundout. so is absolute, it doesn't depend on the luck of the ball, the defense behind, or various park factors. a go pitcher can have a 3.50 era this year, but next year it can be 5.00 while pitching the same way. one of the ways to measure a pitcher's true effectiveness now is through his defense-indepedent or fielding-indepedent pitching metrics...pitchers can't really control wins and there's a bit of luck in the traditional era.

[triwak]

I think both are deserving. And I'm already on record with my incredulity about what some consider to be a "watered down" Hall of Fame! Only about ONE percent of the total number of major league players have been enshrined. Using that barometer, it is by far the most difficult HOF of any of the major sports in which to be honored! You may argue for or against any specific player. But I just do not understand this desire for a HOF of only the top 50 players, or whatnot. Come on, really?

[barrysloate]

There are certain glamour statistics and the strikeout is one of them. Why do we see fans in the bleachers bringing K cards to post after each strikeout when the team's ace is on the mound? It just has that status and the fans love them.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Bert has a website that, in part, promoted himself for the Hall. Interesting.
http://www.bertblyleven.com/hall_of_fame.shtml

[dabigyankeeman]

Voters who voted for guys like Marquis Grissom, Leiter, Olerud, Surhoff, Boone, etc are making a mockery of the Hall and should not be allowed to vote in future elections.

[tbob]

Originally Posted by dabigyankeeman

Voters who voted for guys like Marquis Grissom, Leiter, Olerud, Surhoff, Boone, etc are making a mockery of the Hall and should not be allowed to vote in future elections.

One of the two guys who voted for BJ Surhoff was on the radio yesterday and said he followed Surhoff since he was a 12 year old playing ball and knew him and his family and the vote was largely ceremonial, a one time vote. That doesn't excuse it but certainly explains why.

[tbob]

The spiting incident was bad but lest we forget, Ty Cobb climbed in the stands and savagely beat up a cripple who was supposedly heckling him. Juan Marichal took a bat to the head of Johnny Roseboro and could have killed him. I think that put in to perspective the spitting incident shouldn't have kept the best 2b of his time out of the Hall.
As far as Blyleven goes, when he retired was second all time on the strike out list. He lost a lot of 1-0 and 2-1 complete games because the Twins' offense was awful during those years.
I think the Hall of Fame is for players who were the best of their time. Obviously there is a tier of dominant players and a tier of great players. Bert was not dominant but he had a great career.
I also think Jack Morris should be in. Maz is in but would never have made it except for the HR in Game 7 in 1960. Morris had a superb career and was the ace for 3 different teams, the Tigers, Twins and Blue Jays. His performance in game 7 in 1991 should be the icing on the cake. I hope he makes it eventually.

[dabigyankeeman]

Originally Posted by tbob

One of the two guys who voted for BJ Surhoff was on the radio yesterday and said he followed Surhoff since he was a 12 year old playing ball and knew him and his family and the vote was largely ceremonial, a one time vote. That doesn't excuse it but certainly explains why.

Yeah, I think most of the time those votes are something like that, but it still isnt right in my eyes. Hey, if I could vote than maybe one day I could vote for Doug Meintkeiwicz, because I have met him quite a few times and he is nicest guy!!!

[philliesphan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Bert has a website that, in part, promoted himself for the Hall. Interesting.
http://www.bertblyleven.com/hall_of_fame.shtml

Peter, intriguing especially since one of the tables is Most # of Career Home runs allowed, where Blyleven ranks seventh. The site says "ALL-TIME HOMERUNS ALLOWED- Blyleven ranks 7th (6 of top 10 are in the Hall of Fame - Moyer and Johnson not eligible yet)"

I'm not sure how or why it is relevant that 6 of the top 8 are in the HOF, since the last time I checked, giving up a Home Run was a BAD thing...

[rhettyeakley]

Peter, intriguing especially since one of the tables is Most # of Career Home runs allowed, where Blyleven ranks seventh. The site says "ALL-TIME HOMERUNS ALLOWED- Blyleven ranks 7th (6 of top 10 are in the Hall of Fame - Moyer and Johnson not eligible yet)"
I'm not sure how or why it is relevant that 6 of the top 8 are in the HOF, since the last time I checked, giving up a Home Run was a BAD thing...

What is misleading about that as a statistic is that if a pitcher is no good and gives up a lot of home runs he will not last long enough in the league to make that list. When you are a power/strikout pitcher you WILL give up homeruns. Also, in order for a pitcher to last 15 to 20 years in the league is very difficult because they need to show they are consistently worth the roster spot, which is why most pitchers at the top of that list are there--longevity, NOT b/c they weren't any good. It is like someone bringing up Cy Young's LOSS total and using that as the reason Young isn't any good--VERY misleading stat as Young also has the most WINS.

Voters who voted for guys like Marquis Grissom, Leiter, Olerud, Surhoff, Boone, etc are making a mockery of the Hall and should not be allowed to vote in future elections.

Not so fast on Olerud, I don't consider the guy a HOFer BUT he quietly put up some decent #'s and was regarded as a good fielder as well. Combined with the fact that Olerud may very well have been the slowest player to EVER PLAY I don't have any problem with his name on that list--he is a very similar "statistical" player as Will Clark. Also, Olerud is among the best guys to ever play the game.

-Rhett