Blyleven & Alomar get in the HOF

[barrysloate]

I wouldn't put so much emphasis on strikeouts, but it is a pitching stat that is loved by fans and respected by people who follow the game. Blyleven had 3701 and is 5th all time. Maybe only one of many factors, but a superlative one that is a big part of his career.

Look, as we've said there are at least 100 guys or more that don't belong in the hall, but if you accept the fact that Perry, Sutton, Niekro among others are in, then Blyleven should be too.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I would rank Perrry well above Niekro and Sutton, and so does Bill James. He had two Cy Youngs and just missed a third, to go with the rest of his stats.

[mintacular]

One of the by-products of rejecting steroid-era players is that borderline HOF pre-steroid guys like Blyleven will slip in.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by mintacular

One of the by-products of rejecting steroid-era players is that borderline HOF pre-steroid guys like Blyleven will slip in.

That is a great point. Given the mentality that 1 or 2 guys have to get in every year, replacements have been and will continue to be needed for Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro, Clemens et al.

[Cy2009]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I would rank Perrry well above Niekro and Sutton, and so does Bill James. He had two Cy Youngs and just missed a third, to go with the rest of his stats.

If you accept Perry in the Hall of fame, then you must let McGwire, Bonds et al. into the Hall as well. Does anyone think that Gaylord would have had any chance for the Hall without the spitball?

Cy

[byrone]

Originally Posted by Cy2009

If you accept Perry in the Hall of fame, then you must let McGwire, Bonds et al. into the Hall as well. Does anyone think that Gaylord would have had any chance for the Hall without the spitball?

Cy

Just reading "Now Pitching" byBob Feller. He included Gaylord Perry in his top 10 pitchers of all-time. I'm willing to bet that the Perry "spitball" had much more psychologcal benefit for him than it did practical.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by byrone

Just reading "Now Pitching" byBob Feller. He included Gaylord Perry in his top 10 pitchers of all-time. I'm willing to bet that the Perry "spitball" had much more psychologcal benefit for him than it did practical.

Somewhere I read an interview with his catcher for one of his Cy Young seasons (forget which one) who said he threw maybe two spitters the whole year. It was the mind games that gave him the advantage.

[barrysloate]

I was thinking the same thing. If Mazeroski didn't hit that home run he's probably not in the Hall of Fame.

[Touch'EmAll]

So where do you put Blyleven on a ranking scale for his era?

Was he the most dominant pitcher?

Was he the second most dominant pitcher of his era?

Was he the 10th most dominant pitcher of his era?

Lets see: He needs to be ranked with Carlton, Seaver, Ryan, Palmer, Sutton, Eckersly, Jack Morris, Dave Stewart, Luis Tiant, Fergie Jenkins, Gaylord Perry - I know I am forgetting a few.

But do honestly rank Blyleven up there with the Best of the Best??

Come on, answer is not quite.

[Robextend]

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

Lets see: He needs to be ranked with Carlton, Seaver, Ryan, Palmer, Sutton, Eckersly, Jack Morris, Dave Stewart, Luis Tiant, Fergie Jenkins, Gaylord Perry - I know I am forgetting a few.

Well as far as that list goes I put Carlton, Seaver, Ryan, Palmer, Jenkins and Perry ahead of Blyleven. It can certainly be argued that he was better than Sutton, Morris or Tiant. And although Dave Stewart was a very good pitcher, he isn't in the same league as those other guys. During the era in which those guys pitched Eckersley was a SP, and he is in the HOF because of his days as a RP so I don't think Eck should be in this argument.

[nolemmings]

I'm biased in favor of Bert, who not only didn't pitch in the AL East but who also was not widely liked by the media--he was far from the affable fellow on TV these days. Still, 60 shutouts just doesn't lie, especially with that many strikeouts. That's a guy taking the mound and you not being able to do a damn thing to beat him, oftentimes not even to put the ball in play. That is dominant, IMO.

Blyleven had one fewer shutout than Nolan Ryan and Tom Seaver, and more than Gibson and Carlton--only 4 deadball pitchers and Warren Spahn (63) had more. He finished in the top 5 in WHIP seven times, ERA seven times and Ks/Ws thirteen times. Compare Carlton 5-5-7, Seaver 9-7-7, Palmer 6-10-1 and Jenkins 4-0-9.

Count me among those who places little on All-Star appearances, especially for pitchers and during an era when at least one team had to have a representative. On Bert's teams, this meant Carew and Stargell/Parker for the first 11 seasons of his career, and Puckett for several more later. Of the four seasons he played in Cleveland, Bert made the game once and should have made it a second time, 1984, when his season numbers were better than four of the five starters--only Boddicker had him in wins 20 to 19 (although Boddicker had 2 more losses) and ERA 2.79 to 2.87--and where one, White Sox lone representative Richard Dotson, finished under .500 with an ERA of 3.59. At the end of his career in Anaheim, he had another All Star year, going 17-5 with a 2.73 ERA and league-leading 5 shutouts at age 38. These numbers were stronger than any of the All-Star starters other than World Champion A's Dave Stewart and Mike Moore. No All-Star game for Bert then either. Big deal.