JSA buys equity stake in SGC

[Rich Klein]

At least in the new card market it was fascinating ---- Upper Deck being blown out of the water in their BB and FB license; and their money problems including having an MLBPA license but not producing one full set using that. There was an issue about not paying players for autographs earlier this year, guess that never got settled.

Panini and Topps basically becoming the only 2 card companies that matter.

Most of that was settled by April. but 2010 was the most important year for card company "moving" since 2005 when Fleer went bankrupt and Donruss/Leaf/Playoff lost their baseball license.

James probably has some better insight because of what he does for H&S but some of my questions would include:


1) Is the Federal investigation ever going to end -- and if so, with what if any indictments. Feds tend to move slowly but surely, so we may not even see this concluded in 2011

2) Auction Houses -- I think we already saw the 1st move towards some consolidation -- I could have sworn I saw that long time dealer Andy Madec has "merged" his business with Mile High -- I'll bet we have more to come in 2011.

Regards
Rich

[oldjudge]

I think losing Michael and Sean, if that is true, is a real loss. My personal view is that any combination with JSA dilutes SGC's credibility.

[sb1]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

I think losing Michael and Sean, if that is true, is a real loss. My personal view is that any combination with JSA dilutes SGC's credibility.

That may be somewhat true, as the autograph authentication world in general is fraught with problems. Not only can the collecting fraternity many times not tell a good autograph from a bad one, neither can the authenticators on many occasions. The autograph business in general has a much higher level of bad news than the card collectible area. SGC had clearly defined itself as THE grading company in the arena of graders, based on consistent grading, a quality holder, fewist mistakes and premier customer service.

On a final note, Derek Grady and Scott Hileman are still there(at least as far as I know) and will be the glue to hold together SGC as we knew it.

[Matt E.]

I may be a little behind here but doesn't JSA currently work with Beckett Grading Services also?

Will James Spence Authentication (JSA) will own the majority of the equity investment in SGC?

Just wondering.

I have 100% of my cards in SGC holders.

Matt

[joeadcock]

Interesting.

[clamendo]

What goes around comes around. I had these Admiral Rams cards graded and authenticated years ago. So Spence and SGC are no strange bed fellows - maybe they were a little ahead of their time, previously. SGC seems to respond to these rumors fairly quickly. Remember, if you have knowledge and a good reputation (if the rumors are true) guys like Sean and/or Mike, should have no issue re-surfacing (if they want to) at an auction company, grading company, card manufacturer, as a dealer, etc. Look at Derek he's on his second tour of duty at SGC. I am not concerned at all. us36441.jpg

[JamesGallo]

I assume this is where this information comes from.

http://www.sgccard.com/boards/ubbthr...page=1&fpart=1

I am not very happy about this, as I had very good relationships with all three men and to see them all go in such a short period of time doesn't sit well with me.

That being said as long as things stay as they are I don't see any reason I will change and I guess I will have to just develop new relationships....

James H

[Leon]

First of all, everyone that has left over at SGC I consider to be good hobby friends. I have taken a vow of confidentiality but my understanding is it is basically business as usual. The same graders are still in place and that is mostly (all) what you pay for when you get your cards graded. As many of us on this board have a lot of business experience it is not unknown to see things like this happen when a merger or acquisition takes place. Add in the dismal economy we are in and these changes aren't a surprise. I do hate to see my friends leave the company but hopefully they will resurface in the hobby, if they want to, and land on their feet. Good folks usually do, and all of the guys that have recently left are good folks. I think it will be business as usual over at SGC. No one likes change but it is inevitable in today's business climate. best regards

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

I think losing Michael and Sean, if that is true, is a real loss.

+1

[Fred]

Would it be possible that submissions are WAY DOWN and that there are less people doing the "new and shiney" thing which means that there's going to be even less business (not that SGC was picking up a lot of the "new and shiney" business anyway). Perhaps getting out of SGC may be a good business plan right now. My guess is that the unsustainable submission levels of the past have subsided and the price of grading will have to increase just for the companies to break even or turn a small profit.

This hobby has been over ridden by "collectors" that have speculated and lost their butts on card board. Maybe now they can try to corner the market on Puffles, have them graded and make those little toys completely unavailable to the little kids that really LIKE those things. Without submissions the grading business doesn't look so promising. Hey, maybe they can start grading Puffles.

My opinion - one reason that people supported SGC was the people that ran the company were trusted and held in high regard. I'm not saying that JSA can't be trusted but if you're used to something and then there's a sudden "change", it's not always positive. Look at Coca Cola and "New" Coke.

I guess my ungraded cards aren't going any where, any time soon.

One last thought - If JSA takes over ownership of SGC and uses it as a vehicle to peddle their autograph services does that mean that JSA will not be in the business of selling autographs?

[Bilko G]

Im curious to know if JSA is still gonna do auto authentication for BGS?

[barrysloate]

I was thinking the same thing as Fred: maybe all the grading services are suffering from fewer cards being submitted than in the past, and without some new revenue stream they will be hurting. So they may all need to find new ways to structure their businesses, and increase submissions. Perhaps the autograph authenticating market still has a lot of growth potential, more so than baseball cards.

I also predict a lot of consolidation in 2011. There are too many auction houses, and too many auctions. Perhaps by merging forces the industry will be stronger.

[Jay Wolt]

Barry, will "Barry Sloate Auctions" be resurrected in the coming year?

[botn]

Originally Posted by Fred

One last thought - If JSA takes over ownership of SGC and uses it as a vehicle to peddle their autograph services does that mean that JSA will not be in the business of selling autographs?

Dave Forman never stopped selling graded cards and even submitted and sold material amounts of SGC graded cards, despite making public statements that he would no longer sell cards. Not sure anyone will REALLY care what JSA does in this regard. The hobby seems very selective in taking issue with conflicts of interest which have existed, which is really too bad.

[barrysloate]

Don't think so Jay, but thanks for asking. I've fallen out of the loop.

[drc]

JSA used to authenticate autographed cards for BGS.

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by Fred

Would it be possible that submissions are WAY DOWN and that there are less people doing the "new and shiney" thing which means that there's going to be even less business (not that SGC was picking up a lot of the "new and shiney" business anyway). Perhaps getting out of SGC may be a good business plan right now. My guess is that the unsustainable submission levels of the past have subsided and the price of grading will have to increase just for the companies to break even or turn a small profit.

This hobby has been over ridden by "collectors" that have speculated and lost their butts on card board. Maybe now they can try to corner the market on Puffles, have them graded and make those little toys completely unavailable to the little kids that really LIKE those things. Without submissions the grading business doesn't look so promising. Hey, maybe they can start grading Puffles.

My opinion - one reason that people supported SGC was the people that ran the company were trusted and held in high regard. I'm not saying that JSA can't be trusted but if you're used to something and then there's a sudden "change", it's not always positive. Look at Coca Cola and "New" Coke.

I guess my ungraded cards aren't going any where, any time soon.

One last thought - If JSA takes over ownership of SGC and uses it as a vehicle to peddle their autograph services does that mean that JSA will not be in the business of selling autographs?

Granted the "new and shiney" market isn't doing particularly well. However, I fail to see how that has anything to do with SGC. Modern collectors almost always go with either BGS or PSA.

[bbeck]

When I recently dropped by SGC for a card submission I asked how business was and was told it was quiet ( a sign of the economy) , except for the occasional burst of auction house submissions. I think JSA made a smart investment in a solid pre war brand name in the grading market. JSA runs a tight ship (I have no idea what their percentage of ownership is) and as long as the key graders stayed on why should the SGC name be tarnished. SGC has had other major executive changes over the years. I think a more important question is the Mastro/Forman proceedings and what effect that will have on SGC.

[sb1]

SGC or JSA, or whoever runs it now, at least put a hobby veteran in place as it's man to be the "face" of the company. Joe Delgrippo has been involved in the hobby in many different roles in the last 2 decades. I have personally known him since the late 1990's and know him to be a quality guy. Will SGC change? maybe, will the product change? probably not.

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

James probably has some better insight because of what he does for H&S but some of my questions would include:


1) Is the Federal investigation ever going to end -- and if so, with what if any indictments. Feds tend to move slowly but surely, so we may not even see this concluded in 2011

2) Auction Houses -- I think we already saw the 1st move towards some consolidation -- I could have sworn I saw that long time dealer Andy Madec has "merged" his business with Mile High -- I'll bet we have more to come in 2011.

Regards
Rich

Hi Rich,

I'm part of the day to day and I honestly never hear about the FBI. Mostly, because we don't have anything to worry about Auction houses have to get more innovative in order to sustain themselves. H&S is the only auction house I know of that has modern experts on board. That's a relatively untapped market that did VERY well for us in 2010.