What is the long-term value of Game-Used cards?

[NeuhartCards]

I tend to agree with the thinking...However, look at it this way:

Our hobby is on the edge of extinction as it sits now. I just opened a card shop, and I see very few children coming in the front door. If the thought of pulling a g/u Mantle or Pujols card gets them into the hobby, I am all for it.

The bigger problem I see is the fact that, like everything, the manufacturers over-do it. Instead of putting one or so per box, or making it a big pull, there are thousands of g/u cards and they are losing their appeal.

Our hobby will never return to the days of yesteryear...as much as we would like it to. It is our job to bring in the younger collectors...at what cost, I don't know.

My long .02.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by NeuhartCards

I tend to agree with the thinking...However, look at it this way:

Our hobby is on the edge of extinction as it sits now. I just opened a card shop, and I see very few children coming in the front door. If the thought of pulling a g/u Mantle or Pujols card gets them into the hobby, I am all for it.

The bigger problem I see is the fact that, like everything, the manufacturers over-do it. Instead of putting one or so per box, or making it a big pull, there are thousands of g/u cards and they are losing their appeal.

Our hobby will never return to the days of yesteryear...as much as we would like it to. It is our job to bring in the younger collectors...at what cost, I don't know.

My long .02.

I agree in some sense to this summation. If the mfg's would not overdo it they would do better long term. That seems to be the main problem. The card company(s) find something that has a market, produce a billion of it, then there is a huge diluted market and less demand. If they would strictly limit the GU cards, and only put in articles that aren't so rare they are actually harming history (imo), then everyone would win, and long term too. As far as extinction, if you look at the "meet and greet" thread you will see a lot of 30 and 40 somethings. As addicted as we are I think there are a few generations of time left in us (at least I hope so). But this is the vintage market and it seems to have a bit more staying power than the newer market. That is why I mentioned somewhere that anything that brings in the under-30-somethings, is all good by me. I definitely agree with NeuhartCards on that...but please don't tear up National treasures doing it.

BTW, NeuHartCards, I am fascinated with the idea of opening a card shop in today's economy and hobby climate. I don't see me doing it but it's definitely interesting. If you would care to elaborate on your thoughts on it and how you are doing, I am sure many of us would be appreciative. It's a subject that all of us vintage guys should have some interest in. Best regards and thanks for your post.

[barrysloate]

While I always hated these concoctions put out by the card manufacturers, you could make an argument that the cut signatures are more valid than the cut up uniforms or bats. At least with an autograph, even though it was cut down from something, you are still getting the full signature (for the sake of this argument let's assume it is real).

But what are you getting when a uniform or bat is cut into a thousand pieces? A square inch of material? A splinter of wood? I was never able to understand what the attraction was. I would love to own a Picasso, certainly never will, but I would have no interest whatsoever in owning a one inch square piece of canvas covered with oil paint that was made available by cutting one of his paintings into a thousand small pieces. I'd rather just go to a museum and spend an afternoon looking at a few real ones. To each his own, but a scrap of something is worthless to me. And I also would have no confidence that the thing was even what it was supposed to be. How would one even authenticate it?

[Orioles1954]

I love it when pre-war guys imagine themselves as the "real" hobby and the "shiny" guys are some how less than. The vast majority of this hobby are modern collectors. Interestingly, I know of several who became pre-war collectors because of "retro" themed sets and of swatches of older uniforms. Most "shiny" collectors I know actually love baseball and appreciate its history. The "shiny" equivalent to Net54 is Freedom Cardboard. It is a huge and very friendly environment where BOTH modern and vintage are celebrated. I find it a refreshing place.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

I love it when pre-war guys imagine themselves as the "real" hobby and the "shiny" guys are some how less than. The vast majority of this hobby are modern collectors. Interestingly, I know of several who became pre-war collectors because of "retro" themed sets and of swatches of older uniforms. Most "shiny" collectors I know actually love baseball and appreciate its history. The "shiny" equivalent to Net54 is Freedom Cardboard. It is a huge and very friendly environment where BOTH modern and vintage are celebrated. I find it a refreshing place.

I get kind of tired of people saying we (vintage collectors) think the modern collectors are somehow inferior. Please point that out to me in this thread. I love the new card collectors and FreedomCardboard is the only other board I post on (besides the SGC one sometimes). I distinctly remember several instances when I personally went up to new card collectors at the National and shared some of their excitement. Again, please show me where our members are saying we are the "real" hobby and new card collectors aren't. Maybe I missed it?

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by Leon

I get kind of tired of people saying we (vintage collectors) think the modern collectors are somehow inferior. Please point that out to me in this thread. I love the new card collectors and FreedomCardboard is the only other board I post on (besides the SGC one sometimes). I distinctly remember several instances when I personally went up to new card collectors at the National and shared some of their excitement. Again, please show me where our members are saying we are the "real" hobby and new card collectors aren't. Maybe I missed it?

When what somebody collects is deemed "crap" or "garbage" and of no "real value", it does not take much reading between the lines or countless works cited pages. I'm glad you enjoy Freedom Cardboard as well, we can agree it is very much a breath of fresh air to this hobby. They very much respect the pre-war hobby over there.

[Orioles1954]

By the way, it's kind of a moot point now. The majority of the modern collectors out there are much more interested in baseball prospects, autographs, parallels and the like than Hall of Fame game-used swatches. Unless it's a multi-colored patch or an early Hall of Famer (not much being produced at all now) there just isn't the demand.

[NeuhartCards]

How many of us really, truly buy cardboard as investments? If we would have put all of our $$ into cardboard in 1991, or even as recently as a couple of years ago, we would have lost our shirt on many things...not all, but many.

We buy/sell/trade as a hobby...an expensive one, but a hobby. Let's not forget that aspect. You like T206 cards, someone else may like hot wheels. Some people actually buy cards because they like the way they look...not just because of the investment quality and the value they hold.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

When what somebody collects is deemed "crap" or "garbage" and of no "real value", it does not take much reading between the lines or countless works cited pages. I'm glad you enjoy Freedom Cardboard as well, we can agree it is very much a breath of fresh air to this hobby. They very much respect the pre-war hobby over there.

edited to be nicer...I hope all new card collectors get all the cards they hope to get and continue the tradition of collecting baseball cards ..Happy holidays!!

[jcmtiger]

I think the cards are collectible, just not for me. The best part is the gamble that you might find one in a box or pack. These cards are fun for the card shops and the their customers. I don't see any long term investment possibility. You make your money on the cards right away if you decide to sell.

Joe

[36GoudeyMan]

Like many, I disagree with the destruction of scarce items in order to make mass-produced items with a sliver or a chip from that genuinely (and genuine) scarce item. The idea that a relic has been chopped up so that it is not a true relic but an indistinguishable fraction of a relic is disturbing on many levels. But, clearly there is a market for this type of thing. And where there is a market, whether it the new shop owner who needs the foot traffic that relic cards might generate in order to keep his doors open, or the manufacturer who keeps (for better or worse) the new card makret stocked with product, there are people willing to exploit (non-pejorative version of the word here) that market.

If you look on eBay, you will often see auction sales of "three words in Geroge Washington's handwriting," which refers to an historical document written by George Washington that has been chopped into a thousand pieces of three or four words and sold in such tiny fractions. And they sell. And its criminal, in my mind, to destory that handwritten Washington document (although the do sometimes come from badly damaged documents that are otherwise unsaleable).

I do not like either practice, I wish they would stop, but as long as there is potentially profitable demand, there will be supply.