Shoeless Joe Jackson

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by esd10

well first off jackson was not educated and probably didnt understand what he was doing all he knew he was getting paid some extra cash.

Sorry, I don't buy this idea that Jackson was so ignorant he didn't understand what he was doing was wrong. From all accounts Joe Jackson was not well educated BUT he was not mentally challenged or anything. Betting on baseball, throwing games, etc. are the "cardinal sin" of baseball--there were signs at every ballpark in america stating it was fobidden at the time to bet on baseball--Jackson knew what he was doing when he accepted the money.

[esd10]

well what im trying to say he might not understand the penaltys and the after effects of this scandal when he did it.

[Ladder7]

Why collect?.. Great ballplayer and a good man, just got caught. Doesn't deserve the Hall of Fame Hall of Fame though... Sorry to say, neither does the Ginger Kid.


Joe's testimony in Sept 1920, to the Asst DA;

...Q Did anybody pay you any money to help throw that series in favor of Cincinnati?

A They did.

Q How much did they pay?

A They promised me $20,000 and paid me five.

[bbcard1]

Shoeless Joe is a romantic character...his omission from the Hall of Fame, much like Pete's, has done more to make him famous than his inclusion would have. Had everyone just vote in him ago, he would have been spoken of in more or less the same way as Cap Anson or Al Simmons are... which is to say not much. Which is why I would open the doors wide for McGwire, Bonds, Clemens and not worry much about it. But I can certainly respect hard core opinions on the other side of things. Folks in the middle are the problem.

[Republicaninmass]

"I'm no Barry Bonds fan, but in terms of cheating I'd say he couldn't hold a candle to Cobb or some of the great dirty ballplayers of the deadball era, where spiking, punching, rubbing the ball with shoe polish, mud, spit, vaseline, sandpaper, etc., holding on to guy's belts as they tried to steal bases, slugging them in the gut as they ran by, etc... the one-umpire days of baseball were the dirtiest, most dishonest, ugliest baseball, filled with the most cheating ever seen, no question. The simple reason was, there was only one umpire and they could get away with it."


I'd like to see that kind of stuff return to today's game!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

Shoeless Joe is a romantic character...his omission from the Hall of Fame, much like Pete's, has done more to make him famous than his inclusion would have. Had everyone just vote in him ago, he would have been spoken of in more or less the same way as Cap Anson or Al Simmons are... which is to say not much.

There is some truth to this, but then again he not only had one of the great nicknames of all time, he hit .356.

[dstraate]

I hope I'm not out of line or bringing up taboos or anything, but

http://cgi.ebay.com/1930s-ADOLF-HITL...item3f05aeda7a

I was shocked when I saw this on EBay at 500 bucks. For me, the joy of collecting hinges upon identifying with a player. Even with Joe Jackson, I can put aside the unsavory reputation and admire the ballplayer. Heck. I like guys with a bad reputation because there have been times in my life when I've been less than perfect.

Still, there's really no way I can identify with Adolph. I can't imagine anybody could. Unless this is going to become a part of a propaganda exhibit, I don't get it.

[ALR-bishop]

In Jackson's testimony before the Cook County Grand Jury, which is publicly available ( I have a copy), he clearly admits taking the money and it is also pretty clear he knew exactly what was going on. In fact, there is some discussion in the testimony that he was upset that others were paid more than he got and for that reason may have decided not to participate.

[Ladder7]

David Straate, Yes, it's offensive and we all know that some of our species' freaks of nature will collect anything.

But, Im at a loss... What the Hell does it have to do with Jackson?

[Matt]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

In Jackson's testimony before the Cook County Grand Jury, which is publicly available ( I have a copy), he clearly admits taking the money and it is also pretty clear he knew exactly what was going on. In fact, there is some discussion in the testimony that he was upset that others were paid more than he got and for that reason may have decided not to participate.

I'm admittedly not an expert on the topic, but I believe he retracted the admission not too long after.

One other point - taking the money but not changing how he played in the games is very different then actually throwing a game. Granted, as a policy, the league must enforce the former, because it would be near impossible to prove that a player struck out on purpose, but the integrity of the game is only actually impacted by the latter.