Final confirmation of the T206 AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 & UZIT matched "twins"

[Abravefan11]

I believe based on my research that the only run of Broad Leaf 460 and the first run of Red Hindu cards shared the same preprinted front images. This sheet was comprised of 34 images that included the following cards.

Baker, Frank
Bender, Chief (No Trees)
Brown, Mordecai (Chicago On Shirt)
Chance, Frank (Portrait - Yellow)
Chase, Hal (Portrait - Blue)
Chase, Hal (Black Cap)
Cobb, Ty (Portrait - Red)
Davis, Harry (Davis On Front)
Donlin, Mike (With Bat)
Doolan, Mickey (Batting)
Dougherty, Patsy (Arm In Air)
Downey, Tom (Batting)
Doyle, Larry (With Bat)
Elberfeld, Kid (Fielding)
Evers, Johnny (Chicago On Shirt - Yellow Sky)
Griffith, Clark (Batting)
Johnson, Walter (Glove At Chest)
Joss, Addie (Hands At Chest)
Kleinow, Red (Boston - Catching)
Konetchy, Ed (Glove Near Ground)
Magee, Sherry (With Bat)
Mathewson, Christy (Dark Cap)
McIntyre, Harry (Brooklyn & Chicago)
Murphy, Danny (Batting)
O'Leary, Charley (Hands On Knees)
Reulbach, Ed (No Glove Showing)
Rucker, Nap (Throwing)
Seymour, Cy (Throwing)
Snodgrass, Fred (Catching)
Stahl, Jake (Glove Shows)
Street, Gabby (Catching)
Sweeney, Jeff
Willis, Vic (Throwing)
Young, Cy (With Glove)

This group is made up entirely of 350-460 Subjects. If one of these 34 can be found with a Red Hindu it can be found with a Broad Leaf 460 as they shared the same sheet composition. The single print run and group of Broad Leaf 460's gives us that definitive look at a particular print run at a specific moment.

There was another print run of Red Hindu's at a later date with a different front image combination which included 12 460 Only players but Broad Leaf 460's were not run again.

When looking at the other 350-460 group of 29 they do not have a print run like the Broad Leaf 460 that shows us they were all printed together. Every print run that they are included with also includes many other players that could have been mixed with them on the various sheets for each back.

American Beauty - 75
Cycle - 109
Uzit - 50 (to date)

So while we can say definitively that all 29 were included in a specific back run, I don't think there is enough evidence to say that they were all on the same preprinted front sheet. But I also can't say with 100% certainty that they weren't on the same sheet, it is just highly unlikely in my opinion based on the data.

[tedzan]

Tim

I have 30 confirmed Red HINDU cards. We differ in the following......

Cobb
Dougherty
Murphy
Reulbach

With the exception of the Cobb, I expect the other 3 to eventually surface with Red HINDU backs. Do you have scans of these last three ?

As for the Red Cobb, the one auctioned off 1 1/2 years ago appears to be a re-fronted fake. No other one has been seen. Indeed, none
of the four T206 Cobb's have been seen with either a Red or Brown HINDU back.


Now, regarding your......
"When looking at the other 350-460 group of 29 they do not have a print run like the Broad Leaf 460 that shows us they were
all printed together. Every print run that they are included with also includes many other players that could have been mixed
with them on the various sheets for each back."

Please clarify this statement, as I don't understand what you are getting at ?

Again, I'll reprise what I previously have said....I can say this from my experience collecting the AB 460 sub-set of 75 cards, that certain
350/460 cards are significantly tougher to find than others. To me, this implies that a number of cards on this sheet were Double-Printed.
Which would suggest that the 29 - AB 460 cards from the 350/460 series were printed on a sheet larger than just 29 cards.

I will check my records on my 6-year adventure collected this sub-set and list my accounting of the Single-Prints versus the Double-Prints.


TED Z

[Abravefan11]

Cobb, Dougherty, Murphy, and Reulbach have all be confirmed with Broad Leaf 460 so if my contention that all Broad Leaf 460's were also printed with Red Hindu's is true then they should have been printed.

I realize the Cobb Red Hindu that was sold not to long ago had a great deal of doubt surrounding it and I won't argue one way or the other for it's being good. I will just say I believe a Cobb (Red Portrait) Red Hindu is a possible front back combination.

The 29 350-460 players on the Uzit - American Beauty 460 list were not printed as part of a small print run like the Broad Leaf 460's. So it is difficult to conclude with certainty that they were all printed on the same sheet simply because they can be found with the same back. They all can be found with Cycle 460 as well as several other backs so I have no evidence that in every instance or even two that all 29 were printed on the same sheet when they are part of a much larger group.

Again this is just my opinion based on what I have researched.

[tedzan]

Tim

When I first hypothesized about the BROAD LEAF 460 / Red HINDU matched twins, I figured there would be a rule breaker or two.
Or, that we may never know for sure about some of the Red HINDU cards. Unfortunately, due to the fact that many of the com-
mon Red HINDU's were bought up by the scam "artists" to create re-fronted star cards 10 years ago. Therefore, your contention
may not materialize. For example, by now I would think that Wonka would have found a Red HINDU Murphy (batting) card.

Speaking about re-fronted cards, reminds me of that Red cobb / red HINDU card. Why would you expect any T206 Cobb to have
a HINDU back ?

In 30+ years, I have not seen any of the four T206 Cobb's with a HINDU back....have you ? ?


TED Z

[Abravefan11]

Of the four Cobb poses the only one that should show up is the Red Portrait - Red Hindu for reasons previously stated. Cobb - Bat Off Shoulder was in the opposite 350-460 group during the 460 series and printed with an Uzit back precluding it from being printed with a Red Hindu.

One would think that either the Green Portrait or Bat On Shoulder Cobb would have been included in the Brown Hindu print run but they were not.

Regarding the Murphy I hold out more hope for finding that card than any of the other unknowns and hope it finds John well so he can complete his back run.