Announcing "Collectors Forensics Register" - Revolutionizing the Hobby

[Collectors Forensics Reg]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Well this has been a tough crowd, and this is probably not the response you were expecting. But I have to say I don't understand what this service provides. I understand you don't grade cards, but according to your promo your company's goal is to deter fraud. But how? If I submit a card that was doctored, are you saying you will spot that alteration every time using forensic techniques? And how does that differ from the already established grading companies- don't they authenticate as well as grade cards? Are you saying you will catch the mistakes they missed? I'm sure you have put a great deal of thought into this service but you lost me at "Hello Net54 Members."

Thanks for the inquiry, Barry. Let me address your post in two parts. First, the answer is no, we are not trying to identify mistakes made by the grading companies or potential fraud while recording the forensic video. Once the cards are graded and encapsulated, we consider them a single product, each containing multiple components (slab, card, informational flip and inserts in some productions), each one of these components containing its own specific forensic properties. Those properties include weld points, trapped air, fibers, dings, scratches, ink splashes, smears, etc.

While recording the forensic video, these microscopic properties are put into the forensic record. I believe that everyone will agree that the premise of the encapsulated card is that it should never be the subject of physical change. Therefore, when performing the forensic registration of the graded card, the only thing that we care about are the forensic properties of the entire production.

We are dispassionate toward which grading company, quality or accuracy. However, once the forensic record is made public, it is subject to close scrutiny by potential buyers, interested parties or even trading companies. Herein lies the implicit fraud deterrent and quality control. If you a perpetrator of fraud, the downstream effect of the forensic registration is your potential implication or least making you think twice about engaging in fraud again.

If you are a grading company, the least desired effect from a public relations standpoint, is to have your graded product identified as a counterfeit or altered card. Such a finding may be exposed once it is registered and entered into public record. It will also call into question potentially inaccurately awarded grades, hence we expect that the grading bar will be raised considerably, since the forensics are now publicly available.

Secondly, the service is intended to do for hobbyists, what Carfax has done for auto buyers / sellers -- put everything about the product "above board". When looking at two used cars side-by-side, all things being equal, the one with the exposed history gets the sale. Both buyer and seller benefit. It will be a great enabler for card dealers and auction sellers.

Thanks for your inquiry, we hope that this helped.

[barrysloate]

Thanks for getting back, and good luck with the business. That helped a bit.

[Robextend]

I dunno, personally I don't see much use for this service. If I didn't trust the grading company, I wouldn't have them grade my cards in the first place. This seems like overkill, just my two cents.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Robextend

I dunno, personally I don't see much use for this service. If I didn't trust the grading company, I wouldn't have them grade my cards in the first place. This seems like overkill, just my two cents.

Exactly -- SGC currently provides me with all the peace of mind that I need regarding my collectible cardboard.

[RobertGT]

This whole enterprise strikes me as hilarious joke that would make a great SNL parody or a late-night infomerical that comes on after the Ronco guy with a new state-of-the-art blender. You can almost cue the dialogue now:

"...the downstream effect of the forensic registration is your potential implication or least making you think twice about engaging in fraud again."

Then the whole crowd of audience members chanting "OOOOOH, AAHHH" while clutching their GAI 7.5 90 Topps Frank Thomas RCs.

If you act now, we'll throw in 2 free fiber analyses.

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by Collectors Forensics Reg

Secondly, the service is intended to do for hobbyists, what Carfax has done for auto buyers / sellers -- put everything about the product "above board". When looking at two used cars side-by-side, all things being equal, the one with the exposed history gets the sale.

If you buy a lemon of a car that could be the difference between life and death. For that reason, a service like Carfax is a nice bonus. However, for sports cards, I will continue to ask for big scans and submit to SGC.

[tinkereversandme]

I think the comparison to the Carfax is simply amusing. In one case, I have to get to work in something I hope is safe and viable and is part of every day life and I hope what I use to create a decision upon purchasing the item shows that I won't be taken. In this case, it's merely further assurance of a purchase of a baseball card and...to be honest with you, my head hurts from reading this and I really don't understand a need for it. Good luck however.

I'm not your target audience to begin with. I have fifty or so graded cards (and growing) and I think SGC does a wonderful job.

Bob

[D. Bergin]

I don't know. It seems whoever started this thought it out pretty well, came up with a decent plan, spent quite a bit of money and actually pushed out a pretty decent looking website.

That said, I hate the jump on the bandwagon, but what next? You will basically pay to have your cards/memorabilia graded twice. I also have a hard time believing it's going to prevent fraud, as the fraudsters, along with most other people, are not going to be sending their cards in for a CarFax report to be written up on it.

What it might do is accelerate arguments about some higher grade, more important cards in the hobby, if this does ever catch on.

I can just see it now. Somebody starts a thread to tell us PSA/Beckett/SGC sucks, because under ultra-intense UV negative light magnified at 50 times, you can most obviously see a crease starting to form inside the top left corner of this T206 Ty Cobb PSA 7. This is obviously a PSA 6 and a multiple thousand dollar mistake. What can I do to be reimbursed by PSA/Beckett/SGC?

[RobertGT]

It's very difficult to discern how this service will provide any layer of additional protection or security not already provided by the TPG companies. If I am reading the company's mission statement correctly, and it's possible I'm not as it pretty vague, the service provided is basically a microscopic video of the card and its properties inside the holder. Also recorded is the flip/grade/company etc. The company takes no position on the authenticity of the card or whether it appears the holder has been tampered with.

So what's to stop "Fraudster A" from cracking a PSA 8 holder, replacing it with an inferior copy of the same card, resealing it inside the PSA 8 holder and then sending it off to this service to be registered forensically? The company says it doesn't evaluate the cards for tampering - just what the fibers, etc. look like in a holder.

So this company then records/registers the properties of a fraudulent PSA 8 card with let's say an EX card inside. Everything appears to be on the up-and-up, according to the registry. Doesn't this compound the problem by adding a false layer of security?

Can someone explain how this helps anyone?

[oldjudge]

Excuse my negativity, but this is a horrible business model. As I understand the product, all it does is effectively verify that a slabbed card has not been tampered with. This is only an issue with high dollar cards where it may be worth it for some low life to break open a slab and replace the original card with a lower grade copy, or a forgery. However, this service could be more cheaply provided by the grading companies by offering to scan the cards(when they grade them), for some minimal fee, into a permanent data base. Since there is no extra shipping involved, and they are working on the card already, the grading companies can always beat this service on price. Even the llamas are laughing at this one.

[ChiefBenderForever]

It seems redundant to me, also what happens if someone drops a card and the case is cracked or gets all scratched up, plastic is not a fingerprint. The website does look dope but I just don't see anyone paying for this service but wish you the best of luck.

[barrysloate]

Generally when we have a thread about a product or service, or some hobby event that elicits opinions from the board, we find ourselves split for and against. I don't recall any discussion- not even one about the grading services- that has been so universally panned by everyone. If I were about to launch this business I would have some serious concerns at this moment.

There very well might be an audience for this, perhaps as cited earlier newbies who have a lot of money to spend but have heard too many horror stories about fraud. But I think nearly everyone on this board collects because they have fun doing so. For whatever benefits are offered here, this concept certainly sucks all the fun out of collecting.

[illini805]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I don't know. It seems whoever started this thought it out pretty well, came up with a decent plan, spent quite a bit of money and actually pushed out a pretty decent looking website.

That said, I hate the jump on the bandwagon, but what next? You will basically pay to have your cards/memorabilia graded twice. I also have a hard time believing it's going to prevent fraud, as the fraudsters, along with most other people, are not going to be sending their cards in for a CarFax report to be written up on it.

What it might do is accelerate arguments about some higher grade, more important cards in the hobby, if this does ever catch on.

I can just see it now. Somebody starts a thread to tell us PSA/Beckett/SGC sucks, because under ultra-intense UV negative light magnified at 50 times, you can most obviously see a crease starting to form inside the top left corner of this T206 Ty Cobb PSA 7. This is obviously a PSA 6 and a multiple thousand dollar mistake. What can I do to be reimbursed by PSA/Beckett/SGC?

I think the site was probably done in a couple hours. It's not a very professional looking site in my opinion.

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by illini805

I think the site was probably done in a couple hours. It's not a very professional looking site in my opinion.

I don't agree with that sentiment. I think the site looks clean and user friendly. I also think they have approached this idea with a good deal of professionalism. However, I wonder if they focus tested this concept in some way?