Mr October....Cliff Lee 7-2 post season, 2.13 ERA....80 K's

[Peter_Spaeth]

So much for Mr. October.

[tbob]

Give Lee a break. He pitched a helluva game, threw one bad pitch to Renteria. He is still one of the top pitchers in baseball.

[tedzan]

However, Cliff Lee is not "Mr November".....

In the 7th inning last nite, Lee committed one of the "cardinal sins" of baseball. With an 0-2 count on Uribe, Lee failed to waste the 3rd pitch.
This pitch was right over the plate and Uribe singled to center to keep the rally going. In my opinion, had Lee wasted that 3rd pitch, he most
likely he would have gotten Uribe out (as he had in Uribe's prior two at bats). And, the 7th inning would've been different....as Renteria would
not have been at bat.

Anyhow, don't misconstrue me, Tim Lincecum pitched a great game and deserves all the credit due him.


Moreso, I fault Ron Washington for not starting Lee in the very pivotal 4th game. This would have been an advantage for Texas, as Lee would
not have faced-off with Lincecum.

This scenario was a repeat of last year's Series, where I thought Charlie Manuel should have started Lee in the 4th game against the Yankees.
And, the Phillies would have had a better chance of winning



TED Z

[thekingofclout]

ZERO RINGS

He's good but c'mon now... Koufax & Gibby were ALL World Series Games! Much tougher environment in which to preform as Mr Lee found out.

[tedzan]

At this point in time, I do not see how any current pitcher in BB that can be compared with Koufax or Gibson.

Furthermore, in 1965 & 1967....Walt Alston and Red Schoendienst (LA & St Lo Cards managers, respectively) took
a page (or 2) from Casey Stengel's book. These managers were not afraid of starting their "Aces" in 3 games of a
7-game World Series.


TED Z

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Furthermore, in 1965 & 1967....Walt Alston and Red Schoendienst (LA & St Lo Cards managers, respectively) took
a page (or 2) from Casey Stengel's book. These managers were not afraid of starting their "Aces" in 3 games of a
7-game World Series.


TED Z

Ted,

You realize, of course, that not all "aces" are the same, right? Just because an "ace" of a pitching staff 45 years ago was suited to pitching on short rest doesn't mean that the ace of the Rangers' staff in 2010 also was up to the same task. Just like every clean-up hitter isn't comfortable swinging away at a 3-0 pitch, players are different.

I'll stop now. Don't want to be a contrarian.

[tedzan]

If guys like Allie Reynolds, Bob Turley, Sandy Koufax, and Bob Gibson pitched on 3-days rest during World Series play and were successful......
then why can't any of the current crop of pitchers do it ?



TED Z

[Peter_Spaeth]

3 days rest used to be the norm.

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by tedzan

If guys like Allie Reynolds, Bob Turley, Sandy Koufax, and Bob Gibson pitched on 3-days rest during World Series play and were successful......
then why can't any of the current crop of pitchers do it ?

TED Z

If a Toyota Prius can go more than 40 miles on a gallon of gas, why can't a Corvette, Hummer or Jet Ski?

If I can get grape juice from a grape, why can't I from an apple, orange or Jet Ski?

Seriously, no one is saying that none of the current crop of pitchers aren't suited to pitch on short rest, only that maybe Cliff Lee isn't. And my guess is his managers would be in a better position to know his limitations than would a baseball fan watching on TV somewhere in Pennsylvania.

Again, players/pitchers are individuals. The fact that Bob Turley could successfully pitch on three day's rest has absolutely no bearing on whether Cliff Lee can -- or should. That's like saying Denny McLain could drink six cases of pop in a single day, so why can't Justin Verlander?

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Moreso, I fault Ron Washington for not starting Lee in the very pivotal 4th game. This would have been an advantage for Texas, as Lee would
not have faced-off with Lincecum.

This scenario was a repeat of last year's Series, where I thought Charlie Manuel should have started Lee in the 4th game against the Yankees.
And, the Phillies would have had a better chance of winning



TED Z

Cliff Lee never has pitched on three days' rest in his major-league career. The fact that two big-league managers in two consecutive World Series chose to not have him do that probably shouldn't be used as an indictment. Rather they might be given credit for knowing a player's limitations and not placing him in a situation in which he's more likely to fail than succeed.