Do we trust them now?

Originally Posted by Matthew H

I have been hearing decent feedback from some friends here locally. I've heard they have a really quick turnaround time (I haven't actually checked). I also heard that they are very consistent in their grading.

Thats due to the lack of customers, not good service. What have we seen them release into the hobby that is plentiful enough to determine fair and consistent grading. I personally think the Matty is Trimmed.

[bobbyw8469]

Time will tell if the general public accepts them or not. Me personally, I don't. I guess if I see some of their cards in the upcoming Robert Edwards auction catalog, with substantial bids on them, then I will take notice. I guess anything is possible, because I still see some auction houses pushing GAI crap.

[bbcard1]

They were offering a free grade at the National. I got one graded and thought they were pretty harsh...arguably a grade low. The presentation is nice though.

[calvindog]

Isn't this the company that unilaterally put 'ads' of REA and other companies on its website in order to give the appearance that those companies had actually taken out the ads? And only after repeated demands by REA were they removed? Sorry, we have enough frauds in this hobby, I don't think we need another.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Isn't this the company that unilaterally put 'ads' of REA and other companies on its website in order to give the appearance that those companies had actually taken out the ads? And only after repeated demands by REA were they removed? Sorry, we have enough frauds in this hobby, I don't think we need another.

I would bet they are still doing that. I find it hard to believe that their current "advertisers" consent to the ads on their web site. They have removed the guys who complained and kept those that didn't.

[Peter_Spaeth]

That's a pretty positive endorsement from Steve Hart, who has always struck me as someone with integrity.

"I have known Jason Koonce for the past several years. He has one of the best eyes in the entire business when it comes to grading sportscards. His ability to spot alterations (trimming, recoloring, creases/marks that have been removed) is as good as anyones! His integrity is also unblemished as he has always came through on his word."

[rarerookies]

Look at there list of cards for sale. A 15k card for a knowledgeable buyer or seller should be of PSA or Beckett caliber. Not ISA or whatever they are. Somethings up here. Look at all the gem 10 cards they have and what they are.
http://shop.ebay.com/bccgseller/m.html
1986 Fleer set rc DOMINIQUE WILKINS pop 1 Rookie ISA 10

1984 Topps rc JOHN ELWAY rookie Gem Mint ISA 10 pop 1

Upper deck 1 rc SHAQUILLE O'NEAL rookie Gem Mint ISA 10

So you got hall of famers gem mint 10's graded by ISA then you got the common players graded by becket. hmmmmm

WHO"S FRED JONES?!?!?! And why did they get this card graded by becket and John Elway graded by ISA. Somethings up here.

2002 Topps chrome FRED JONES rc Refractor BGS 9.5 10 x2

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Pup6913

Thats due to the lack of customers, not good service. What have we seen them release into the hobby that is plentiful enough to determine fair and consistent grading. I personally think the Matty is Trimmed.

Looks bigger than the SGC 92 Johnson you like, to me anyhow. What signs of trimming do you see?

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by Pup6913

What have we seen them release into the hobby that is plentiful enough to determine fair and consistent grading.

I believe that a friend of mine was speaking on personal experience, not so much on what has been released into the hobby.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Looks bigger than the SGC 92 Johnson you like, to me anyhow. What signs of trimming do you see?

Its without a doubt a bigger card than the WOJO to some but I would rather have the WOJO if its not altered. I said I personally think it may be trimmed, not that it is. Peter you know as well as me that some trims are not visible to the naked eye, especially on line pics.

Only time can tell wether or not this company will takeoff. I wish them the best but am very skeptical. Peter if you say he is what he is I am sure he should have no issues making headway over time. I am saying this about this particular card because the seller has several and a few are A's in the same cond. The cost of an Auth Matty Cycle and a Grade 5 is 10,000K+. Just sayin.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Andrew I meant the Matty is a LARGER card than the Johnson which you apparently don't think is trimmed, so was wondering why you think the Matty is trimmed.

[Bilko G]

Jason Koonce made some big hobby news years ago as the guy who opened hundreds of cases (yes, cases) of 2001 Upper Deck Golf to pull the Tiger Woods RC's. I guess he filled his garage (there were pictures) from floor to ceiling with all the wrappers that he had opened.

Edit- I should add that i am pretty sure that this is the same guy but not 100% sure.

[lharri3600]

Just like in politics a third party is scorned. and it looks like the same thing in the hobby. what makes psa and sgc the "gods" of grading. i say that for this reason, i sent a t206 card to psa and it came back trimmed. sent the same card back 3 weeks later and it came back a 7!! therefore, why can't this isa be invited to the party?? subjective what's wrong with consistant

[steve B]

Any new grading service has to overcome being put in the same group as the ones that aren't even genarally consistent. All the big 3 make mistakes, but over thousands of cards are generally right about trimming, and generally consistent on the grade.

But there's a bunch of grading services that haven't measured up in one way or another. I think I read somewhere that PSA had a collection or database of about 2000 other grading companies. Some probably found it wasn't all that easy, some probably had a poor business model from the start, and others couldn't get it right. The worst of them intentionally never get it right.
Like the "graded" spaulding guide pages one guy sells on Ebay, a screwdown holder and a sticker don;t make a grading company.

I've seen a few others that never seem to grade anything as less than an 8. (Probably actually only 9 or 10, but I'm going easy since I don't look at many modern cards)

So yeah, anyone new has to establish themselves as reliable before their work will be generally accepted.

Steve B

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Andrew I meant the Matty is a LARGER card than the Johnson which you apparently don't think is trimmed, so was wondering why you think the Matty is trimmed.

No I said the same about the Wojo, "take it if its unaltered". I dont think many super high grade cards are unaltered. I even thought my SGC 7 may have been also but if it was done many many yrs ago maybe it just looked normal. The CJS that were found were from the factory, right?, and they were amazing but we knew exactly were they came from, a set. When a T205 or 206 or what ever shows up for sale in really high grade it throws some flags. Does it not.

[canjond]

Originally Posted by Pup6913

No I said the same about the Wojo, "take it if its unaltered". I dont think many super high grade cards are unaltered. I even thought my SGC 7 may have been also but if it was done many many yrs ago maybe it just looked normal. The CJS that were found were from the factory, right?, and they were amazing but we knew exactly were they came from, a set. When a T205 or 206 or what ever shows up for sale in really high grade it throws some flags. Does it not.

Andrew - 1915 CJs had an option to be issued in set form for 25 cents and two box tops (as opposed to being packaged in boxes) hence why there is a lot of high grade '15 CJs out there. I think, however, you may be referring to the pristine '14 CJs that were "discovered" a year or so ago.