Mr October....Cliff Lee 7-2 post season, 2.13 ERA....80 K's

[tedzan]

Very good observation regarding your color comparison (Halloween -- Giants).

I grew up with guys like the man you met at that Cubs - Cards game. When the New York Giants left the Polo Grounds in
1957, these guys were devastated. Three years prior to that move, the Giants beat the mighty Cleveland Indians 4-0 in
the World Series.
People always talk about hating Walter O'Malley for the Dodgers leaving Ebbets field (actually Robert Moses, the NY poli-
tician, was more to blame). Anyhow, Horace Stoneham was just as hated as O'Malley. It was a "double whammy" for New
Yorkers in 1957. It was the year I graduated High School. Most of my classmates were Dodger or Giants fans. While "talkin
baseball" at our recent 50th H.S. reunion with my classmates, I will tell you that many of these guys still hold grudges 50
years later.



TED Z

[Peter_Spaeth]

So much for Mr. October.

[tbob]

Give Lee a break. He pitched a helluva game, threw one bad pitch to Renteria. He is still one of the top pitchers in baseball.

[tedzan]

However, Cliff Lee is not "Mr November".....

In the 7th inning last nite, Lee committed one of the "cardinal sins" of baseball. With an 0-2 count on Uribe, Lee failed to waste the 3rd pitch.
This pitch was right over the plate and Uribe singled to center to keep the rally going. In my opinion, had Lee wasted that 3rd pitch, he most
likely he would have gotten Uribe out (as he had in Uribe's prior two at bats). And, the 7th inning would've been different....as Renteria would
not have been at bat.

Anyhow, don't misconstrue me, Tim Lincecum pitched a great game and deserves all the credit due him.


Moreso, I fault Ron Washington for not starting Lee in the very pivotal 4th game. This would have been an advantage for Texas, as Lee would
not have faced-off with Lincecum.

This scenario was a repeat of last year's Series, where I thought Charlie Manuel should have started Lee in the 4th game against the Yankees.
And, the Phillies would have had a better chance of winning



TED Z

[thekingofclout]

ZERO RINGS

He's good but c'mon now... Koufax & Gibby were ALL World Series Games! Much tougher environment in which to preform as Mr Lee found out.

[tedzan]

At this point in time, I do not see how any current pitcher in BB that can be compared with Koufax or Gibson.

Furthermore, in 1965 & 1967....Walt Alston and Red Schoendienst (LA & St Lo Cards managers, respectively) took
a page (or 2) from Casey Stengel's book. These managers were not afraid of starting their "Aces" in 3 games of a
7-game World Series.


TED Z

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Furthermore, in 1965 & 1967....Walt Alston and Red Schoendienst (LA & St Lo Cards managers, respectively) took
a page (or 2) from Casey Stengel's book. These managers were not afraid of starting their "Aces" in 3 games of a
7-game World Series.


TED Z

Ted,

You realize, of course, that not all "aces" are the same, right? Just because an "ace" of a pitching staff 45 years ago was suited to pitching on short rest doesn't mean that the ace of the Rangers' staff in 2010 also was up to the same task. Just like every clean-up hitter isn't comfortable swinging away at a 3-0 pitch, players are different.

I'll stop now. Don't want to be a contrarian.

[tedzan]

If guys like Allie Reynolds, Bob Turley, Sandy Koufax, and Bob Gibson pitched on 3-days rest during World Series play and were successful......
then why can't any of the current crop of pitchers do it ?



TED Z

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Moreso, I fault Ron Washington for not starting Lee in the very pivotal 4th game. This would have been an advantage for Texas, as Lee would
not have faced-off with Lincecum.

This scenario was a repeat of last year's Series, where I thought Charlie Manuel should have started Lee in the 4th game against the Yankees.
And, the Phillies would have had a better chance of winning



TED Z

Cliff Lee never has pitched on three days' rest in his major-league career. The fact that two big-league managers in two consecutive World Series chose to not have him do that probably shouldn't be used as an indictment. Rather they might be given credit for knowing a player's limitations and not placing him in a situation in which he's more likely to fail than succeed.