Insights into probable T206 uncut sheets

[esd10]

if you ever read the book the card they had found a 4 or 5 t206 sheet in wagners pants pocket its really cool

[B O'Brien]

Ted,
I am still working to get a grasp of the sheet idea, sorry for being slow. I need small number to wrap my mind around this, so lets talk about the SC 150, 649 group of 34 cards.

Since your base number is 48, would there be 14 double print cards in this set? I have also seen you mention 12 as the magic number on the row number, would this be a 36 card sheet, with two double prints on the sheet?

If we are just talking about the SC150, 649 and the double print thought I have (based on 12 or 48 as the magic numbers), is in line with your thinking, any idea what the double prints might be?

Thanks,
Bob

[tedzan]

Notice, that I also mentioned a 36-card format......
"My format of a 48-card sheet (or a 36-card sheet) is essentially based on these two factors...."

The Sweet Cap 150, Factory #649 (overprint) subset consists of 35 subjects.
My theory is that American Litho. printed 36 subjects, but for unknown reasons never issued one.
My guess is that the card that was yanked was either Cobb or Plank.

Plank is a plausible candidate since he was issued with a Sweet Cap 150, Factory #30 back. And,
then they stopped issuing Plank cards. Also, recall that the Factory #649 stamp was overprinted
over the Sweet Cap 150, Factory #30 cards.

But then again, Cobb was also issued with the Sweet Cap 150, Factory #30 back.


TED Z

[B O'Brien]

OK Ted,
I got you now, at least as far as SC150, 649 goes. My mistake on the 34 instead of 35 cards.

That is a pretty neat sheet you have up there!

Hope all is well,
Bob

[canjond]

Maybe it was the Collins batting?

[cfc1909]

I am 99% sure that Sweet Cap 649 is a 34 card sub set with the 649 overprint bar covering factory 30.
There is a 1% chance I am wrong and will offer $200 if someone can produce a 35th card. Not a scan an actual card.
I believe the card in question is Nicholls hands on knees-I do not believe this card exist with Sweet Cap 649.

Also as far as sheets go I would think with all the 206s with the name at the top the cards have the same player vertical and probably 34 or 68 different players across.
With the millions of 206s around I would think they were printed in large sheets, at least bigger than 24. Just my opinion not fact.

Sweet Cap 649 = 34
Hindu south =34
Coupon 1 = 68

Also if there are 12 150 only cards-does that count Wagner or Magie?
They are 150 only.

[Abravefan11]

The magic number for the T206 sheets is not 48 but rather 34. The evidence to back that up is strong.

The Southern League group was 48 however only 34 were printed in the initial run of the Brown Hindu set.

The Brown Hindu set has a confirmed number of 102 total. 34 x 3 = 102

The Coupon Type 1 set has a total of 68. 34 x 2 = 68

The Sweet Caporal No. 649 set has 34 cards.

Other backs will not be as equally divisible by 34 as they were run multiple times allowing for different combinations of front images on the sheets.

Ted’s example above does not account for miscuts we have seen with the same players name on the top of a card as it should be on the bottom. Miscuts with the same name printed on top are more prevalent than those with a different name than should be on the bottom which shows that multiple images were printed top to bottom and then the next player.

To date there has been no evidence of images duplicated left to right or printed horizontally to the vertical cards on the sheet.

If Ted is correct on the 12 card width than the sheets would comprise 34 images printed 6 times each for a total of 204 per sheet.

[mkdltn]

I am not sure about the 19 inch press track measurement. That might be the measurement for a proving press.

My research leads me to believe that a HOE NO.4 or HOE NO.5 flatbed stop cylinder lithographic press was likely used to produce the T cards. I found an article in an electrical engineering magazine from 1897 describing the new facility that ALC moved into after consolidation. This is approximately 12 years before production of the T206 cards. On the picture of the sixth floor layout posted below there are 30 lithographic presses. I believe the article mentions that this is one of three floors filled with presses. At the time a HOE NO.4 press would cost anywhere from 3000 to 5000 dollars. That would be a capital investment of 120,000 1897 dollars, That is very roughly about 3 and a half million dollars in todays money. (That is very much an approximation because the inflation calculator only goes back to 1914) the point being that I think that ALC would have squeezed every bit of use out those presses and to think that they would still be in functioning 12 to 15 years after installation is not beyond possibility.

The bed of the HOE presses is also posted in image 3. these dimensions lead me to believe that the sheets could have been much likely larger than you would think. The HOE No. 5 could use a 36x52 in stone or plate. Schmidt litho also used similar presses.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by canjond

Maybe it was the Collins batting?

Jon, why do you say it was COllins batting in particular?

Zach Wheat

[tedzan]

The Collins (batting) proof card was printed in the 1st series. It was withdrawn (for whatever reasons); therefore, never issued.







TED Z

[Jantz]

Here is another one Tom.

Willis(with bat) - Wilhelm(with bat)

I've seen one other, but its on a website and I can't pull the scan.


Jantz