Who are the 10 most important collectors in hobby history

[Leon]

I can't imagine all of these anonymous folks being so helpful to the hobby? If they are so helpful why the anonymity? Isn't that counter to what is being discussed? Also, I am taking the title literally. For me, the most important collectors aren't the ones with the most money that can buy whatever they want to. I don't begrudge them whatever they want to do but I just don't think buying a large collection necessarily helps the hobby. I guess it does in the sense that it keeps it moving but I like to think of helping the hobby as actually helping collectors. If the anonymous people are big registry guys then I would say they are great for the registry, might be really nice guys and collectors, but I am not sure that helps the hobby in general...though that can definitely be argued and I could see the other side of that argument too. Interesting discussion....way to go Brucii

[Wesley]

What about Marshall Fogel? In addition to having a great collection, he is ready to spearhead a nonprofit hobby watchdog organization. That is a pretty significant contribution to the hobby.

[GoSoxBoSox]

Originally Posted by Wesley

What about Marshall Fogel? In addition to having a great collection, he is ready to spearhead a nonprofit hobby watchdog organization. That is a pretty significant contribution to the hobby.

He needs to do it first to deserve the honor. Of course, it should also have a positive impact

[GoSoxBoSox]

Since there are a couple of dead people listed on list B can we (meaning Bruce) just merge both lists into one list? It would be great to use that one list to show who contributed what to the hobby.

Thanks!

[teetwoohsix]

IMO, some of the most important collectors in hobby history are the ones who so kindly provide us with their knowledge and insight about the cards they love and collect, and share pictures & scans of cards we may never get a chance to own. Collectors who run websites devoted to the cards we love (Net54,oldcardboard,T206.org,etc.) and who write books (Jefferson Burdick-ACC,,,, Jay M.,Joe G., and Richard M.-The Photographic Baseball Cards of Goodwin & Company 1886-1890,,,Scot R.-Inside T206,,,,,Lew Lipset-The Encyclopedia of Baseball (all volumes),,,,,etc.

I think the title of this thread could've been " Who has had the most impressive collection in hobby history".

Clayton

[Leon]

I hate to be so agreeable, because it's not generally my nature, but you guys are absolutely correct. What we are discussing really needs to be split into two, as one is not really dependant on the other.

1. Who has/had the best baseball card collection?
1b. Who has/had the best sports memorabilia collection?

2. Who has/have contributed most (positively) to the baseball card hobby? (I am being specific on purpose)

Defining the questions would lead to different answers, most times, and I can understand and would even stick up for a collectors right to be private. It's their collecting...more power to them. On the other hand, to contribute positively to the hobby, it might be difficult to remain anonymous or behind the scenes.

regards

[GoSoxBoSox]

All would be interesting conversations.

I am particularly interested in a thread that addresses "Who has/have contributed most (positively) to the baseball card hobby?" and what was the contribution and impact? I think everyone can learn something on a thread like that and it would not be nearly as self-serving as the original thread topic was meant to be.

Edited to add: Right after Jefferson Burdick I would like to nominate Elliot Bassin for putting Net54 on the map

[teetwoohsix]

+1

[Peter_Spaeth]

Finding and buying cards, and selling them as a collector, was made easier by a quantum leap with the advent of ebay, so I would nominate Pierre Omidyar.

Dear Critics

Our list (s) of the most important collectors in the history of the hobby was focused on the plethora of people whose involvement shaped the hobby.

It is clear that a number of you have no idea who certain collectors are/were and what they contributed.
For example ,one of the people on our list wrote a series of important articles about the Texas Tommy series,
and accumulated more than 45 examples. We, of course, are still in contact, but would not reveal their name.

Other collectors brought interest to the importance of grading cards and essentially enabled the creation of a billion dollar business.

To show you how far things have come in a 1956 Hobby Publication which we have there is a cover story
on a young junior banker whose "$1000 collection" was considered the most valuable in the baseball card hobby.
The article notes that the junior lending officer is the only person in the country to have a complete set of the
"ultra rare Delong gum cards"

Said legendary collector, now deceased, sent us his entire 45-year collection of hobby publications
along with a note of gratitude for our research efforts, and willingness to trade with him.

Many of the "unknown" collectors referenced by our "misguided, uneducated
critics" were friends of the aforementioned legendary collector. In turn they worked
with Egan and other pioneers in identifying players, sets and provenance of various cards and sets.

For those of you who are not true students of hobby history, said collector
was our friend, the late Lionel Carter.

As Always,

Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List
bdorskind@dorskindgroup.com

The country's leading buyer of high grade ultra rare baseball cards and memorabilia (no bats, autographs, uniforms equipment etc.)

[GoSoxBoSox]

Really classy. You can't take criticism or challenges so you belittle people.

For the record your so-called history lesson didn't teach anything other than that you claim to be friends with people that actually have contributed something. Well, there is no prize given to the beauty queen's best friend so I guess you are also one of us non-contributing little people in the hobby.

BTW, we all know about Egan, Carter and many other pioneers. They contributed, yes. You are not Merlin for knowing that. In fact, all of what you just said about Lionel Carter was in the article written about Mr. Carter when his collection was auctioned.

We didn't call anyone on the list you posted "unknown" as you accuse. We challenged that some of them were bigtime contributors to the hobby. Anybody can go down the list you posted and make you look foolish for professing some of those people actually "shaped the hobby". We don't because those people don't deserve to be called out for something so foolish. I'm sure they are all very nice people who could care less about such trivial lists.

Please grow-up.

[Wite3]

I know he never posts and I know he likes it private but a certain broadcaster must be included on the list. He often published articles and owns one of the best collections in the hobby.

I think the list should also include Beckett as a contributor and collector.

Bob Lemke needs to be mentioned as well. A wonderful contributor to the hobby and collector of knowledge more than cards. (And a damn fine card artist lately too).

Just a few I think needed to be mentioned (if they haven't already).

Joshua

[ElCabron]

Dave Kohler
Bill Mastro
Doug Allen
J.P. Cohen
Alan Rosen
Mark Rucker
Alan Hager
Sergio Delgado
Hal Lewis
Marshall Barkman

-Ryan

[GoSoxBoSox]

To refresh your memory I simply asked you to "calm down" in post #33 after you attacked a friend of mine, needlessly, in post #31. Your response was to endlessly go after me. So be it.

It's good to hear you won't be PM'ing me anymore. You should save your breathe because it's wasted on me.

This isn't a war Brucii. This is actually boring to myself and others. No matter what dribble you type it won't stop me from going on with my blessed life. I've spent this evening with my beautiful children and wife in our beautiful home just like I spend most evenings. I don't owe a dime to anyone in the world for anything, and I have a pretty darn nice collection despite you thinking otherwise. I just turned 42 so I think it's fair to say I'm not all that old either (my kids disagree).

I only wish everyone could be as lucky as I am, Brucii. Even you.

[chris6net]

Bruce,I know you have taken some personal attacks in this thread but I can remember meeting you at some of the large East Coast Shows over the years and you were very helpful and a wealth of knowledge. You are an asset to this hobby and I look forward to your book.CN

[barrysloate]

Tom- by any chance are you the same Tom Papa who hosts "The Marriage Ref?"

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by Wesley

What about Marshall Fogel? In addition to having a great collection, he is ready to spearhead a nonprofit hobby watchdog organization. That is a pretty significant contribution to the hobby.

Don't forget that seminar on "how to handle your investment portfolio of sports memorabilia" he held.

[GoSoxBoSox]

I agree with what you said Leon. I admit that I was not looking at contribution to the hobby as much as breathe, depth, etc. of their collections when I say there are at least 3-5 people who should be on that list.

To be honest, I assumed (wrongly) that this second list that the Brucii posted wasn't about contributions to the hobby because there are more than a couple people on that list that I don't know about having contributed much if anything outside of having huge collections? I could be wrong. I'm just saying I don't know what they contributed that was so great? I don't want to be disrespectful by calling out their names but there are some obvious ones to me. I'm not bad talking them because they sure as hell don't owe "the hobby" anything. They should be enjoying it like the rest of us.

If I'm wrong please go down the list and explain to me what each of those people contributed to the hobby outside of compiling huge collctions? You can skip obvious people like Burdick, Fritsch, Lifson, J. Miller and Lipset. Outside of those five gentlemen I would love the education so I can give each of these men the proper respect they deserve.

Thanks in advance.

Tom

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Leon

I can't imagine all of these anonymous folks being so helpful to the hobby? If they are so helpful why the anonymity? Isn't that counter to what is being discussed? Also, I am taking the title literally. For me, the most important collectors aren't the ones with the most money that can buy whatever they want to. I don't begrudge them whatever they want to do but I just don't think buying a large collection necessarily helps the hobby. I guess it does in the sense that it keeps it moving but I like to think of helping the hobby as actually helping collectors. If the anonymous people are big registry guys then I would say they are great for the registry, might be really nice guys and collectors, but I am not sure that helps the hobby in general...though that can definitely be argued and I could see the other side of that argument too.

+1

[whiteymet]

Gentlemen:

I had the privilege of knowing both Bill Haber and Elwood Scharf. I visited Bill's home in Brooklyn and Staten Island numerous times.

I would always see Woody and his wife who I called "Auntie" at the early 70's shows and visited his home a few times as well. I still have many of his handwritten checklists. I remember his happiness when he "discovered" the Averill card in the Salutations set. He had never seen one before, so you know how tough it must be.

Bill's main job at Topps was writing the backs of the cards. In fact Bill desperately wanted to move out of NYC and decided to move to WI. Bill hoped it would help his asthma and I think he also really wanted to be near Larry F.

When he was moving he offered his job to me. I visited Topps and was interviewed by Sy Berger. At the time I was living in "bucolic" NJ working for Bill Mastro's father. I was not a fan of the location of Topps offices in Brooklyn, and when Bill told me he had two batteries stolen out of his car when he parked it at work, I knew the job was not for me. As it turned out Bill kept his job and wrote the cards from WI. but his wife got home sick and didn't like cows she said, so they moved back and settled in Staten Island.

A memory just returned to me recently when I saw the Current All Stars of Roberts Konstanty and Stanky in the recent Legendary Auction. Those cards originated with Bill.

He was known to go hot and heavy for the set he was collecting at the time. Talk about tunnel vision! I recall his quest for Seattle Popcorn cards most vividly. But usually once he completed a set like that he would sell it and start on the next project. I digress.

He started working on a T200 set and I had about 12 nice ones. At the time I didn't collect T cards as much as Topps. I LOVED oddball Topps, test sets, etc. I could never get his 3 1960 Topps cards of Hadley, F. Thronberry, and Cimoli with the different team logos that were changed once they were traded.

But when I turned up the T200's he asked me what I wanted. I told him the 3 Currents I lacked for my set. He said he didn't have them. I told him he know where he could get them. Meaning the Topps files. I had seen them while doing research for Woody Gelman and Rich Egan for what was to be a new Standard Catalog that never came to fruition.

For those of you who don't know, Topps kept two of each card they printed and GLUED them onto plain paper, front and back, side by side.

In a week or two I got a call from Bill saying to come on over he had the Current All Stars for me. He "liberated" them form the files I guess. Bill Mastro and I drove over to Staten Island and Bill H. showed me Roberts, Konstanty and Stanky with glue on the front. He offered them to me for the T200's. I told him I wanted the ones with glue on the back. He said, sorry he promised them to Larry F. For what, I had no idea. After hours of haggling I told Bill Mastro, "lets go" and we headed down the stairs. All the way down Mastro is whispering to me " are you crazy!! You can't walk away from those cards!!" I said, just wait.......

As we hit the bottom step Haber said "OK Fred you win come back up". That's how I got the three cards that were in the recent auction. I took the Stanky with glue on the front because it was in better shape than the other.

They later ended up with Halper when he bought my collection in 1975 (UGH!! a few years too early!!). I recall him telling me he traded them for some Yankee W.S. rings. What happened to them from there I don't know. But they were always my favorite cards even after I completed T206 and lots of other sets. Who won them from the Legendary auction? Anyone here??

AH, memories........ Sorry to bore you all

[oldjudge]

Fred-What a great story. I'm sure no one here was bored with that. On the contrary, most of us love to hear hobby history.

Thanks and keep the stories coming---Jay

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by whiteymet

Gentlemen:

I had the privilege of knowing both Bill Haber and Elwood Scharf. I visited Bill's home in Brooklyn and Staten Island numerous times.

I would always see Woody and his wife who I called "Auntie" at the early 70's shows and visited his home a few times as well. I still have many of his handwritten checklists. I remember his happiness when he "discovered" the Averill card in the Salutations set. He had never seen one before, so you know how tough it must be.

Bill's main job at Topps was writing the backs of the cards. In fact Bill desperately wanted to move out of NYC and decided to move to WI. Bill hoped it would help his asthma and I think he also really wanted to be near Larry F.

When he was moving he offered his job to me. I visited Topps and was interviewed by Sy Berger. At the time I was living in "bucolic" NJ working for Bill Mastro's father. I was not a fan of the location of Topps offices in Brooklyn, and when Bill told me he had two batteries stolen out of his car when he parked it at work, I knew the job was not for me. As it turned out Bill kept his job and wrote the cards from WI. but his wife got home sick and didn't like cows she said, so they moved back and settled in Staten Island.

A memory just returned to me recently when I saw the Current All Stars of Roberts Konstanty and Stanky in the recent Legendary Auction. Those cards originated with Bill.

He was known to go hot and heavy for the set he was collecting at the time. Talk about tunnel vision! I recall his quest for Seattle Popcorn cards most vividly. But usually once he completed a set like that he would sell it and start on the next project. I digress.

He started working on a T200 set and I had about 12 nice ones. At the time I didn't collect T cards as much as Topps. I LOVED oddball Topps, test sets, etc. I could never get his 3 1960 Topps cards of Hadley, F. Thronberry, and Cimoli with the different team logos that were changed once they were traded.

But when I turned up the T200's he asked me what I wanted. I told him the 3 Currents I lacked for my set. He said he didn't have them. I told him he know where he could get them. Meaning the Topps files. I had seen them while doing research for Woody Gelman and Rich Egan for what was to be a new Standard Catalog that never came to fruition.

For those of you who don't know, Topps kept two of each card they printed and GLUED them onto plain paper, front and back, side by side.

In a week or two I got a call from Bill saying to come on over he had the Current All Stars for me. He "liberated" them form the files I guess. Bill Mastro and I drove over to Staten Island and Bill H. showed me Roberts, Konstanty and Stanky with glue on the front. He offered them to me for the T200's. I told him I wanted the ones with glue on the back. He said, sorry he promised them to Larry F. For what, I had no idea. After hours of haggling I told Bill Mastro, "lets go" and we headed down the stairs. All the way down Mastro is whispering to me " are you crazy!! You can't walk away from those cards!!" I said, just wait.......

As we hit the bottom step Haber said "OK Fred you win come back up". That's how I got the three cards that were in the recent auction. I took the Stanky with glue on the front because it was in better shape than the other.

They later ended up with Halper when he bought my collection in 1975 (UGH!! a few years too early!!). I recall him telling me he traded them for some Yankee W.S. rings. What happened to them from there I don't know. But they were always my favorite cards even after I completed T206 and lots of other sets. Who won them from the Legendary auction? Anyone here??

AH, memories........ Sorry to bore you all

Fred,

Great, great stuff! It's so enjoyable to read first-person accounts like yours.

[GoSoxBoSox]

Fred,

That's what these threads are all about. Thanks for the story. Perfect timin as we just watched those babies sell at great prices.

Do you ever regret not taking that job at Topps?

Thanks,

Tom

[HRBAKER]

I concur, what a fascinating first person account. Thanks for sharing it with the board.

Jeff

[FrankWakefield]

Thank you, Fred.

My recollection is that Mr. Haber completed all of the Seattle Popcorn cards. He was driven by getting an image of every player on a card. Thanks for posting.

[whiteymet]

Originally Posted by GoSoxBoSox

Fred,



Do you ever regret not taking that job at Topps?

Thanks,

Tom

Hi Tom:

It was a combination of me not liking Brooklyn and not wanting to commute from Jersey. Once Bill was able to keep his job and move to WI. it worked out the best for all. But I have to admit ever once in awhile I wonder what if.......

[vintagechris]

Originally Posted by whiteymet

Gentlemen:

I had the privilege of knowing both Bill Haber and Elwood Scharf. I visited Bill's home in Brooklyn and Staten Island numerous times.

I would always see Woody and his wife who I called "Auntie" at the early 70's shows and visited his home a few times as well. I still have many of his handwritten checklists. I remember his happiness when he "discovered" the Averill card in the Salutations set. He had never seen one before, so you know how tough it must be.

Bill's main job at Topps was writing the backs of the cards. In fact Bill desperately wanted to move out of NYC and decided to move to WI. Bill hoped it would help his asthma and I think he also really wanted to be near Larry F.

When he was moving he offered his job to me. I visited Topps and was interviewed by Sy Berger. At the time I was living in "bucolic" NJ working for Bill Mastro's father. I was not a fan of the location of Topps offices in Brooklyn, and when Bill told me he had two batteries stolen out of his car when he parked it at work, I knew the job was not for me. As it turned out Bill kept his job and wrote the cards from WI. but his wife got home sick and didn't like cows she said, so they moved back and settled in Staten Island.

A memory just returned to me recently when I saw the Current All Stars of Roberts Konstanty and Stanky in the recent Legendary Auction. Those cards originated with Bill.

He was known to go hot and heavy for the set he was collecting at the time. Talk about tunnel vision! I recall his quest for Seattle Popcorn cards most vividly. But usually once he completed a set like that he would sell it and start on the next project. I digress.

He started working on a T200 set and I had about 12 nice ones. At the time I didn't collect T cards as much as Topps. I LOVED oddball Topps, test sets, etc. I could never get his 3 1960 Topps cards of Hadley, F. Thronberry, and Cimoli with the different team logos that were changed once they were traded.

But when I turned up the T200's he asked me what I wanted. I told him the 3 Currents I lacked for my set. He said he didn't have them. I told him he know where he could get them. Meaning the Topps files. I had seen them while doing research for Woody Gelman and Rich Egan for what was to be a new Standard Catalog that never came to fruition.

For those of you who don't know, Topps kept two of each card they printed and GLUED them onto plain paper, front and back, side by side.

In a week or two I got a call from Bill saying to come on over he had the Current All Stars for me. He "liberated" them form the files I guess. Bill Mastro and I drove over to Staten Island and Bill H. showed me Roberts, Konstanty and Stanky with glue on the front. He offered them to me for the T200's. I told him I wanted the ones with glue on the back. He said, sorry he promised them to Larry F. For what, I had no idea. After hours of haggling I told Bill Mastro, "lets go" and we headed down the stairs. All the way down Mastro is whispering to me " are you crazy!! You can't walk away from those cards!!" I said, just wait.......

As we hit the bottom step Haber said "OK Fred you win come back up". That's how I got the three cards that were in the recent auction. I took the Stanky with glue on the front because it was in better shape than the other.

They later ended up with Halper when he bought my collection in 1975 (UGH!! a few years too early!!). I recall him telling me he traded them for some Yankee W.S. rings. What happened to them from there I don't know. But they were always my favorite cards even after I completed T206 and lots of other sets. Who won them from the Legendary auction? Anyone here??

AH, memories........ Sorry to bore you all

Hardly boring, I love hearing these old stories.