Revisiting the T206 Wagner "strip"

[Al C.risafulli]

And as far as where they draw the line, it would pretty much stop right here

I disagree. Two or three times a week on this board, I see people calling for a representative from a grading company to chime in to a thread and offer an opinion or explanation. The first time a grading company representative does this, it sets a precedent. There have certainly been plenty of other high-profile items where grading companies have been asked to comment on this board.

I also know that if I submitted a card to a grading company, or if I owned a card that was the subject of some discussion, I wouldn't want the grading company to be making public statements about my card - whether they be positive or negative or indifferent. SGC is not the owner of the card; they were asked to render an opinion for the owner of the card at the time of submission, and not to make a public statement to the entire hobby at the request of someone who has no ownership interest in the card at all.

My suggestion would be to have one of the academics here contact the owner of the card, and in the interest of learning, ask if the slab could be opened at next year's National, in a public forum. It could be examined under a loupe, and then re-slabbed. I'd be happy to pony up some cash for re-slabbing the card.

-Al

[barrysloate]

Fair enough Al. I'll go with that. It doesn't seem like a big deal to me but this board can often be a lion's den so maybe they shouldn't say anything.

Could they at least give us a hint?

[cfc1909]

Not to disagree or agree with anybody-just my opinion.

I examined this piece 2 different times while at the National. I thought it was odd all the cards had heavy creasing except the Bowerman.
The cards have perfect registration and appear to be a first run or very close, much better quality than any other cards I have seen of these players.
The piece appeared to be one strip of cards to me. I couldn't see any evidence that these were pasted together but I only could examine it through the plastic.
The vertical lines looked to be printed on and unique to this piece because if these lines were on all 206 sheets we would see them on other 206 cards. I don't think if cards were pasted together, vertical lines would appear.

I have taken 5 raw 206s and put them together. Where they touch doesn't appear to be a printed vertical line.

It would have been nice to hold it and feel the cardboard and run my fingers across the strip.

[Jewish-collector]

Originally Posted by Al C.risafulli

I disagree. Two or three times a week on this board, I see people calling for a representative from a grading company to chime in to a thread and offer an opinion or explanation. The first time a grading company representative does this, it sets a precedent. There have certainly been plenty of other high-profile items where grading companies have been asked to comment on this board.

I also know that if I submitted a card to a grading company, or if I owned a card that was the subject of some discussion, I wouldn't want the grading company to be making public statements about my card - whether they be positive or negative or indifferent. SGC is not the owner of the card; they were asked to render an opinion for the owner of the card at the time of submission, and not to make a public statement to the entire hobby at the request of someone who has no ownership interest in the card at all.

My suggestion would be to have one of the academics here contact the owner of the card, and in the interest of learning, ask if the slab could be opened at next year's National, in a public forum. It could be examined under a loupe, and then re-slabbed. I'd be happy to pony up some cash for re-slabbing the card.

-Al

Great idea !!! Then all of us Net54 members could take turns examining it. We could vote one piece or not one piece. The item would then be re-slabbed with that info on the label on what the majority of members decide.

[Leon]

I have emailed back and forth with Wayne Varner about some other things in the last day or two. He and his partner Bill have handled this raw. Here is his message (I hope he doesn't mind)...

" By the way that Wagner strip is the real thing. No cards pasted together. You can talk to Bill and I about it at the Valley Forge show next month if you are planning to be there. I am sure Ted Z, Bill and I will have conversation. He sits up right next to us if you recall. Hope to see you there.

Wayne"




The other 1 of the 2 people that think it's a strip, which I previously mentioned, is Richard Masson....He and Scott B, my partner (and who already gave his opinion), both louped it at the National and think it's one strip. No more anonymity in my musings . I don't really like to throw names around for a few reasons but I never make crap up.....I could be wrong sometimes, and will admit it, but if I say something there is a reason. best regards

[Comiskey]

What I don't understand is that SGC would have a problem standing by their opinion. I mean, they examined the card and slabbed it, why wouldn't they want to express their opinion on the card? I understand that sometimes threads can become negative, but if they come on the board and express their professional opinion, I would have greater respect for third party grading.

It's a piece of hobby lore and any details about the strip should be expressed so we can come to a detailed conclusion about the piece.

I guess I am just having a hard time believing that a company created to determine the authenticity and grades of these cardboard pieces, wouldn't come onto this board and tell us their opinion on the piece?

Jeff

[HRBAKER]

I can see both sides but they have graded and authenticated it already by slabbing it. In essence they have already rendered a professional opinion.

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

I can see both sides but they have graded and authenticated it already by slabbing it. In essence they have already rendered a professional opinion.

Exactly!

[Doug]

Originally Posted by Comiskey

What I don't understand is that SGC would have a problem standing by their opinion. I mean, they examined the card and slabbed it, why wouldn't they want to express their opinion on the card? I understand that sometimes threads can become negative, but if they come on the board and express their professional opinion, I would have greater respect for third party grading.

It's a piece of hobby lore and any details about the strip should be expressed so we can come to a detailed conclusion about the piece.

I guess I am just having a hard time believing that a company created to determine the authenticity and grades of these cardboard pieces, wouldn't come onto this board and tell us their opinion on the piece?

Jeff

I suggested maybe someone from SGC chime in back at post #25 so I'm guessing either they don't want to get involved in the discussion or they assume the fact that they slabbed it speaks for itself. Personally, if prior owners say it's one strip that's good enough for me. Unless I hit the lottery I won't have to worry about ever owning it so I'm not losing much sleep over it one way or the other, but it would be interesting to hear SGC's take on it.

[cfc1909]

SGC gave their opinion-it is in their holder-SGC A-that is their opinion.

Anything else that is said or written should be to the owner of the card, not on a public chat board...

[goudeygold]

If you step back and think about it a minute, how can 5 cards could be glued together so perfectly that it is essentially undetectable under a 10x loop 100 years after being glued, then creased, folded and tossed about.

The alignment on the top and bottom is razor perfect across all cards. I simply cannot see how it is plausible that they are 5 separate cards glued together 100 years ago. No way IMHO.

http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com...agnerstrip.jpg