Who is the greatest BB player you ever SAW?

[Mikehealer]

I can't imagine anyone that saw both Ryan and Seaver pitch actually believing that Ryan was the better pitcher.

[barrysloate]

Tom Seaver was the much better pitcher, and could be the best I ever saw in his prime.

[Mikehealer]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Tom Seaver was the much better pitcher, and could be the best I ever saw in his prime.

I agree, but it would be a coin flip for me between Seaver and Randy Johnson.
And both of them made road trips.

[FUBAR]

Well i'm probably the only person on this board that has never seen a live MLB game. So i don't have an answer. As a fan , the players i wanted to see were Jr, Nolan, Reggie J, Pujols, and Big Mac (ive always been a fan).

Off topic, although i feel left out, i got to see Gretzky play live at least 100 times including hoisting the Cup 3 times in person.. no one has ever dominated his sport like Wayne and it was just magic. But I went to the Oiler games to watch Grant Fuhr.

I got to see Peyton Manning play 1 series against the Seahawks. Hopefully i will get to see him play a complete game live one day!

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Best player all-around was for me was Clemente. Most of the time he'd take the first strike - so in essence his most of his hitting stats were made by having only two strikes to work with. He had the best arm hands down. A true 5 tool player. May runs a closed second.

I also agree that Pedro Martinez was best pitcher in his prime - especially when one considers that he was truly dominating even in the steriod infested hitting era. Maddux runs a close second and Randy Johnson third.

[Peter_Spaeth]

One guesses that if Bill James updates his list again, ARod and Pujols and Bonds will be very near the top.

[dabigyankeeman]

Nobody mentions relief pitchers, how about Mariano Rivera? What this guy has done for so long in the regular season, the playoffs, and the world series staggers the imagination.

[Ladder7]

Originally Posted by FUBAR

...no one has ever dominated his sport like Wayne and it was just magic.

One word, Bobby Orr. Though Wayne was a close second and Mario an even closer third



Back on track, 2004 playoffs... Dave Roberts is the greatest I'd seen (From a barstool on Cocoa Beach), for stealing second. Sparking the greatest comeback in MLB history by ending a thousand year drought. Though the missus and most everyone I knew had written them off, I still did Believe. *whew*

[Peter_Spaeth]

Even though I am from Boston I think anyone who says Orr was better than Gretzky is being overly provincial/nostalgic.

[tbob]

Red Barber (who saw almost every player in the majors from Babe Ruth to Griffey Junior): "If I could have any one pitcher in history to pitch a game for me with my life on the line, there is no doubt who I would want to pitch that one game: Carl Hubbell."
Just thought I'd mention that since no one ever mentions King Carl. I understand that no one here is old enough to have seen him play in person. I just think he never gets his due.

[Ladder7]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Even though I am from Boston I think anyone who says Orr was better than Gretzky is being overly provincial/nostalgic.

Gawrsh Peter, Orr controlled both areas of the rink. Killed penalties too. He put in some superhuman minutes. Some say, that kid could do everything but fly. I suspect you're too young to have seen his ice capades and are simply trolling.

Of course, as a true 60s Bostonian (not one raised out in the burbs). It's possible, my opinion could be bias'd. Prostalgic Steve

[Jason Carota]

Pedro Martinez, hands down. His performance during the 1999 season was out of this world.

[Peter W Thomas]

Hitters:
1. Williams saw from 1947 to last AB in 1960 - nice result - probably would have had 700+ HR if not for 5 years in service 43-45 & 52-53
2. Mays saw 51-53 also saw the throwing contest with Piersol in 53 that wrecked Piersol's arm
3. Rice of the 70's before his sight went bad. Scarry - never seen balls hit harder.
Pitchers:
1. Spann saw 1947 to 1953 a master, would have had 400 wins if not in service 43-45.
2. Gibson saw 1967 RIP Red Sox impossible to hit, also 1968 RIP everyone he faced
3. Pedro with the Sox - Gibson in 68 all over.

[obcbobd]

Pedro in 99-01 was unbelievable.

For position players, I saw Aaron but at the end of his career. I've seen Bonds twice in person, he was one of the greatest before he juiced.

But picking a player just based on what I've seen, which is mainly Red Sox games I'd go with Yaz, George Brett or ARod

[Touch'EmAll]

Lets look at this when we toss in our beloved baseball cards.

For their era, the most valuable cards:

Ty Cobb - was the best
Babe Ruth - was the best
Dimaggio & Teddy - were the best
Mantle - was the best
Nolan Ryan - was the best

These players (for their era) have the highest prices for their cards. These players have the highest gap in value between them and their contemporaries.

[rnisly]

59 1/3 consecutive scoreless innings

awesome

[dabigyankeeman]

Originally Posted by Jason Carota

Pedro Martinez, hands down. His performance during the 1999 season was out of this world.

Pedro has really long fingers, and the ends bend backwards, it allows him to hold onto the ball longer and also to put more spin on the ball. The guy is great.

Who's your daddy?

[kcohen]

Originally Posted by dabigyankeeman

Pedro has really long fingers, and the ends bend backwards, it allows him to hold onto the ball longer and also to put more spin on the ball. The guy is great.

Who's your daddy?

I don't remember the year, but I once saw Pedro pitch a complete game one-hitter in Baltimore. I was seated down low behind home plate. I've never seen such movement on a ball. That had to have been the closest to unhitable I've ever seen.

[slidekellyslide]

After reading Kirk Radomski's book about the Steroid scandal I've changed my stance on the era somewhat. I now believe that a majority of major leaguers were either on steroids, dabbling with them or taking HGH from about 1997 to 2006..from about 1990 to 95 probably every team had at least one or two players taking steroids, but by 98 most of them felt that they better take them or some guy who is taking them will take their spot on the roster....Guys were taking HGH because it cut their healing time in half. The playing field was level as far as I'm concerned, and I've no doubt that if guys like Maris and Ruth played in the modern era they would have taken steroids too.

I believe someday this will be the prevailing attitude towards the era and that many guys who are now shut out like McGwire, Sosa and Palmeiro will be enshrined in the Hall of Fame.

[Bilko G]

he even signed an autograph for me

[rc4157]

I saw Seaver his rookie year (he lost to Mel Queen and the Reds at Crosley Field), I was spoiled growing up with the Big Red Machine with Pete Rose, Johnny Bench, Joe Morgan, and my favorite player Tony Perez. I haven't bothered to look up the stats but Perez seemed to always be reliable with men in scoring position.

I may have seen Hank Aaron, it's terrible but I don't recall if I saw him in Cincy or not.

Also saw Ken Griffey Jr. after coming to the Reds, he could still play, too bad he had so many injuries.

According to Frank's list of Bill James, the best I saw would have to be either Aaron (if indeed I saw the Braves in town, seems like I did) or Morgan.

RC

Edited to add: Hey, this was post #200 for me, only about 300 more and I might nab one of the infamous Net54 pins!

[FrankWakefield]

Reading through all of these posts, I see the names of players I saw, on the field, in person. I did not see DiMaggio play, nor Ted Williams, nor Satchel Paige. I think I saw the rest of them...

My initial answer to this would have been Mr. Musial. But I recognize bias in that, he was a lifelong Cardinal, a really nice guy, a great ambassador for the game. I thought about seeing Koufax and Gibson pitch against one another in St. Louis, I sat in the right field pavilion behind that screen, I can still hear the popping of the ball in the catchers' mitts. Neither wanted to lose to the other, they were bringing it. I don't think anyone's mentioned Lou Brock, nor should they, but he sure was exciting to watch when he was in his prime, stealing bases. Seaver was serious and businesslike. Same for Ryan, and Randy Johnson. Maddux had that same focus. I saw Mantle play, and Spahn, and Mays. And Clemente. As I've thought this through, maybe Albert Pujols... Or must it be Hank Aaron, with a solid career, complete skill set, and that big bat?

Do I look at a player's performance in a game, a season, a career?? I thought about Bonds, Marichal, Brett, Gwynn, Martinez, Boggs, Sutter... I know it isn't Puckett, nor Rose (although he may well have been the most driven, competitive player I ever saw on the field).

I turned to Bill James' list of greatest players. Mr. James has a way of figuring stuff out. Sometimes I don't initially agree with his results, but usually I'm won over with his reasoning. On page 329 of his revised Historical Abstract, he commences to explain his rating of the Greatest Players of All Time. To paraphrase would be an injustice, go read it, or read it anew. When you get to page 358 he commences his listing. I've put the players I've seen in person in bold.

1- Babe Ruth
2- Honus Wagner
3- Willie Mays
4- Oscar Charleston
5- Ty Cobb
6- Mickey Mantle
7- Ted Williams
8- Walter Johnson
9- Josh Gibson
10- Stan Musial

I'll list some more of the ones I saw...

12- Henry Aaron
15- Joe Morgan
16- Barry Bonds
21- Mike Schmidt
24- Frank Robinson
26- Rickey Henderson
30- George Brett
31- Mark McGwire
33- Pete Rose
34- Eddie Mathews
35- Craig Biggio
36- Warren Spahn
38- Tom Seaver

Joe Morgan was a player who could beat you many ways... seems he was always drawing a walk, or getting a big hit, or the biggest hit, I recall seeing him out in shallow right, knocking down a ball that had "base hit" written all over it, but Joe didn't have his glasses on, he wouldn't read "base hit", and he'd throw the batter out. And he was a presence on the base paths.

Henderson annoyed lots of fans and writers. James thinks that with the passage of time, Henderson's skills will be better appreciated.

Biggio... Mr. James explains that well. I thought he had a good shot at the Hall when he was in his 2nd or 3rd season, so I set out to get his autograph. I was successful. And he was, too.

I had a great uncle who was in the car business. He once told me of riding up to Detroit (from Kentucky) by train with another fellow, they were going to accept 2 cars at the factory and drive them back to Kentucky. He was a good businessman, and frugal. He was all about work and Church. But he did like to fish. And he'd sneak in a ball game once in a while. With a twinkle in his eye he told me about seeing the Senators and the Tigers, he saw Walter Johnson pitch, Ty Cobb hit, and saw Cobb steal a base. That would have been in the early 20's; at that time I'd think that Cobb and Johnson were the greatest players active (Wagner was a coach by then).


So.... the greatest player I ever saw must have been Willie Mays. Seems to me Mr. James' methodology did not include gracious autograph signing.