The Georgia Peach Stumped by the Storyteller

[insidethewrapper]

It appears from the article that John Thorn, a SABR member, didn't want to discuss the pistol/shotgun issue. I thought John was a person who always wanted to set the facts straight and did great research. Why didn't he want to discuss this issue with the museum board members of the Ty Cobb Museum ? It also appears that Mike Gutierrez, according to the article, continued to sell fake Cobb autographs, even when it was known they were fake.

[Tabe]

I recall reading a couple years back about Stump selling or auctioning a pair of *pink* pajamas that he claimed had belonged to Cobb. The authenticity of them was questioned along with a bunch of other items as well. So seeing Stump shredded as he in the SABR article is not a surprise. However, it IS nice to see something so well-researched that finally puts to rest so much of the garbage that Stump spread about Cobb.

Tabe

[Anthony S.]

Should I be concerned about the authenticity of my Ty Cobb signed "Field of Dreams" movie poster?

[iggyman]

Originally Posted by Anthony S.

Should I be concerned about the authenticity of my Ty Cobb signed "Field of Dreams" movie poster?

Nope, you are fine....although, my affirmation is subject to a tiny ittsey-bittsey disclaimer.

Lovely Day...


1. As long as "Roaches Corner" is in buisness.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

It appears from the article that John Thorn, a SABR member, didn't want to discuss the pistol/shotgun issue. I thought John was a person who always wanted to set the facts straight and did great research. Why didn't he want to discuss this issue with the museum board members of the Ty Cobb Museum ? It also appears that Mike Gutierrez, according to the article, continued to sell fake Cobb autographs, even when it was known they were fake.

John is a member of Net54 so maybe he will chime in about that.

[iggyman]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

It also appears that Mike Gutierrez, according to the article, continued to sell fake Cobb autographs, even when it was known they were fake.

Here is the excerpt in the article relating to Mike Guiterrez.....

"Josh Evans, a widely respected memorabilia expert
and principal in the very successful Leland’s Auctions,
has a much more serious indictment of Al Stump.
Evans, a young collector and authenticator in the mid-
1980s when Al Stump was actively trying to sell Cobb
memorabilia, worked with Mike Guttierez on selling
the Cobb items that Stump supplied. Many of the
items were sold to Barry Halper, one of Evans’ best
customers. After seeing multiple batches of purported
Cobb items arrive from Stump via Guttierez, and
becoming ever more suspicious with each batch,
Evans notified Guttierez that, in his judgment, the
items were all fakes—not just the now-infamous
Stump letters on Cobb stationary, but many other personal
items that had supposedly been owned by Ty
Cobb. In a recent interview, Evans stated: “The Cobb
stuff that was coming to me through Gutierrez all
looked like it had been made yesterday. It seemed that
Stump was buying this old stuff from flea markets, and
then adding engravings and other personalizations to
give the appearance of authenticity.” Young Evans was
so distressed by the fake Stump material that Gutierrez
continued to sell that he first told Barry Halper of his
suspicions and then contacted the FBI in an attempt
to get an official investigation of Al Stump started."


I realize I'm nitpicking but a perplexing question that I have, is the moment it was established that Al Stump was a fraud, and the moment that Barry Halper was notified by Josh Evans that he was buying questionable Cobb material. Wouldn't Halper seek a refund and return all the bogus stuff??? Perhaps, he was too busy or didn't care to bother with a refund. But why did he keep all that stuff and actually tried to include it in his 1999 sale? Had he forgotten about its origin? Heck, I would venture to speculate, that if Halper would have made a big stink about it, the second Al Stump book would have never been made, nor would we have a Ty Cobb movie based on a now fictional book.


Robert Lifson,
the memorabilia expert who managed the 1999 sale of
the Barry Halper collection, examined dozens of Ty
Cobb artifacts and Cobb-signed documents sourced to
Al Stump, many of them identical to those described
by Stump in his 1981 correspondence with Howard
Smith. Lifson said in a recent interview that all Stump
items in the Halper collection became suspect after it
was proven conclusively that a Ty Cobb game-used bat
that Stump supplied to Halper was not authentic,
based on the dating of the bat by detailed analysis. Of
the large number of Ty Cobb documents from Stump
that came to Sotheby’s, practically all were judged by
Lifson to be fraudulent. Lifson went on to say, after
reading the content of these letters and examining the
forged signatures, that “Stump must have thought that
he was creating history, or something.” His faking of so
many Ty Cobb documents “must have been a pathological
issue with Stump, something deep-seated within
him. It was just crazy how Stump went to such elaborate
lengths to create the forged Cobb documents.”

Lovely Day...

[martyogelvie]

That was an excellent read! Thanks for sharing!

[iggyman]

W. Ron Cobb (the author of "Stumped by the Storyteller") should really really really be in charge of our new "hobby trade association"...........step aside, Marshall.............there's a new sheriff in town!

http://www.ajc.com/sports/ron-cobb-a-man-584100.html

Lovely Day...

[ChiefBenderForever]

Wow, amazing article, the real truth is Al Stump is a P.O.S. !!

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by JohnnyHarmonica

Wow, amazing article, the real truth is Al Stump is a P.O.S. !!

So I guess that means I move my copy of Cobb by Al Stump to the fiction section of my library.

Zach

[iggyman]

Zach,

Absolutely, positively, YES! Without Cobb around to validate any of the stories in Stump's book. It will now forever be known as a work of fiction. Heck, if some old dictator decided to burn some books, I don't think you would get many complaints if it was thrown into the pile. The really sad part of this revelation, is that good old Al had a once-in-a-lifetime chance to make a fantastic book about Ty. But he blew it! Stump's version might have made him some money and a little fame, but he threw away his integrity in the process (albeit, 50 years later)...

Lovely Day...

[jthorn]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

It appears from the article that John Thorn, a SABR member, didn't want to discuss the pistol/shotgun issue. I thought John was a person who always wanted to set the facts straight and did great research. Why didn't he want to discuss this issue with the museum board members of the Ty Cobb Museum ? It also appears that Mike Gutierrez, according to the article, continued to sell fake Cobb autographs, even when it was known they were fake.

Ron Cobb just sent me an email and requested that I post it to the board in response to the quoted query. I provide without edit or further comment.

john thorn

John,

I read today a post to the net54baseball forum about my recent Ty Cobb article that mentions the 2006 email exchange on the shotgun, and questions why you declined to discuss it. I am very concerned that this reflects negatively on your decision not to pursue that email exchange further at that time. It definitely should not reflect negatively on you, and I did not intend my article to do so. I feel strongly that this should be clarified, so I would greatly appreciate your posting this email to the forum for clarification.

I should have made clearer in the article that the email exchange about the shotgun in 2006 was not with me, but with another museum board member, and that I had been forwarded the emails after the fact. That email exchange was begun with an emotional and argumentative email to you, which was perhaps illogical as well, and it lacked the basis on which a fruitful discussion could be pursued. You were certainly justified and correct to decline to discuss the subject further when approached that way.

Fortunately, you were gracious enough to overlook the unpleasantness of that email exchange when I asked earlier this year if you would review my article prior to it's publication. I certainly thank you for your review and for your comments, which were very insightful, and I hope that the posting of this email will clarify this matter completely.

Ron Cobb

[teetwoohsix]

Stump was a chump !!!

Serious though, thanks for the article-a very interesting read for sure.

Clayton