OT: 1954 Topps uncut sheet

[barrysloate]

Greg- if the winning bidder decides to cut up the sheet and submit the cards for grading, and the graders somehow remember or sense these were the cards from that sheet that just sold, are they still going to give them high numerical grades? Because it seems to me these cards will be recognizable.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Greg- if the winning bidder decides to cut up the sheet and submit the cards for grading, and the graders somehow remember or sense these were the cards from that sheet that just sold, are they still going to give them high numerical grades? Because it seems to me these cards will be recognizable.

I'm curious about that as well - when cards are graded, are they viewed individually, or does the totality of the submission come into play. I could hear an argument both ways.

[barrysloate]

I know Matt. Any single card could just be another high grade one to encapsulate. But if all were submitted at once they would be very recognizable. Do you send in a few at a time over a long period to disguise their origin?

[tedzan]

Barry Sloate more or less beat me to it. Anyhow......

I would expect (at least SGC) would discern the difference in the edge of a vintage card that was originally Factory-cut, versus a
vintage card that was recently professionally cut.

Therefore, the total value of the number of individually graded cards with an AUTHENTIC grade cut from vintage uncut sheet will NOT
exceed the value of that intact sheet. There are uncut sheet collectors (like myself) that are willing to pay a premium for vintage complete sheets.


TED Z

[barrysloate]

The aging of the paper is the key here. When you cut up a sheet you create fresh edges that have never been exposed to the atmosphere. They will not be toned the same as the fronts and the backs of the cards. The graders should catch this immediately.

The operative word is of course "should."

[Peter_Spaeth]

You also create a fresh edge when you trim a card, no?

[botn]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Barry Sloate more or less beat me to it. Anyhow......

I would expect (at least SGC) would discern the difference in the edge of a vintage card that was originally Factory-cut, versus a
vintage card that was recently professionally cut.

Therefore, the total value of the number of individually graded cards with an AUTHENTIC grade cut from vintage uncut sheet will NOT
exceed the value of that intact sheet. There are uncut sheet collectors (like myself) that are willing to pay a premium for vintage complete sheets.


TED Z

Stick to T206s, Ted. This one is a bit out of your scope of expertise. You might want to do more listening rather than lecturing. Routinely trimmed cards make it into holders, both SGC and PSA holders. The guys who are able to trim one edge of a card without detection can trim four edges of a card without detection. Just takes longer and in the case of this sheet their effort will be greatly rewarded. You are showing your inexperience in this arena if you simply assume the card doctor who wins this particular sheet is gonna take a knife to the sheet and place the cards in Card Saver 1s and submit them. Other steps will be taken to mimic the cut and tone the edges though knowing the right people in the hobby could cut out some steps.

[Matthew H]

Does anyone have any proof other than assumption that trimmed cards "routinely" make it into slabs?

[tedzan]

Regarding your........

"Ted. This one is a bit out of your scope of expertise. You might want to do more listening rather than lecturing.
Routinely trimmed cards make it into holders, both SGC and PSA holders. The guys who are able to trim one edge
of a card without detection can trim four edges of a card without detection. Just takes longer and in the case of
this sheet their effort will be greatly rewarded. You are showing your inexperience in this arena if you simply assume
the card doctor who wins this particular sheet is gonna take a knife to the sheet and place the cards in Card Saver
1s and submit them."

I don't know what your problem is ? But, I'm tired of your constant attempts to "bust my chops". I don't know you,
and by your comments, it's obvious that you certainly don't know me. Was Barry Sloate...."a bit out of his expertise"....
when he said the same exact thing that I said ?

Every freakin time you have responded to something I have posted lately on this Net, you have been a "wise-a$$".
Again, I'll repeat....what is your problem ? ?


TED Z

[dstudeba]

Ted, I don't know Greg, but maybe one of the things that got him was this quote from your first post.

I really do not understand this discussion, regarding this 1954 Topps sheet. Trust me, it would be a really stupid decision to cut it up.
Uncut sheets have always been in great demand; and, will usually be worth more than the total value of the individual cards on them.

I know many people here hold you in high regard and therefore your opinion carries weight. With that position comes responsibility and an expectation by others that your opinion is based on factual evidence.

You said that the reason they would all be graded Authentic is that SGC could catch the new cut. However there are pages of threads about trimmed cards getting into holders.

I will let Greg fight his own battles. The real reason I posted was to show an actual example, not my opinion, of a sheet that could be cut up for profit. Here is a sheet of 1909 Obaks that sold in REA for $5875, or $78 per card. Cut it up and grade it Authentic and now you are at $93 per card. Looking at VCP (http://www.vintagecardprices.com) for recent prices we see these prices for SGC Authentic:

12 11/17/08 Frank Browning $99.99
15 9/16/08 Carroll $82.90
16 10/18/09 Albert Carson $123.75
27 4/2/08 Chick Gandil $1,725.00
30 6/28/07 Jack Graney $108.39
31 1/21/07 Ed Griffin $127.50
48 3/6/09 McCredie $135.00
53 10/18/09 Mundorff $149.63
58 3/6/09 Ornsdorff $122.63
65 3/6/09 Smith $122.63

Only one out of ten cards sold for less than $93. Plus there is the Gandil involved. So if you cut the sheet up, sold the cards for $105 each and the Gandil for $1300, you would gross $9175 or $121 a card. There are shipping and auction fees, plus the hassle factor, but there is a good profit margin.

That said, I think it is a nicer piece intact. However the market says it is better to cut it up even if you can't get it into numbered holders.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Matthew H

Does anyone have any proof other than assumption that trimmed cards "routinely" make it into slabs?

Search for the Markel Report, for starters.

[botn]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Greg- if the winning bidder decides to cut up the sheet and submit the cards for grading, and the graders somehow remember or sense these were the cards from that sheet that just sold, are they still going to give them high numerical grades? Because it seems to me these cards will be recognizable.

The 54s do not have to be submitted all at once. I doubt the grading process has evolved into that degree of sophistication where graders study what is being sold. But I could be wrong. I figure all camps, SGC, PSA and BVG, feel they have the training to catch bad cards regardless of how they were submitted and where they once started. For as little as they charge to grade a card I don't think it is realistic for them to be studying potential submissions.