RIP George

[Frank A]

GREEDY that they have to have all the great players so they spend a fortune to get them. The problem is baseball lets them. I don't blame George, he had the money so he used it. But only to make more money. He was a great business man, but a stinker. He did great for the Yankees but did nothing for baseball.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by Frank A

GREEDY that they have to have all the great players so they spend a fortune to get them. The problem is baseball lets them. I don't blame George, he had the money so he used it. But only to make more money. He was a great business man, but a stinker. He did great for the Yankees but did nothing for baseball.

First of all, he was the owner of the NY Yankees, NOT the Commissioner of MLB. It was his fiduciary responsibility to improve the Yankees. It wasn't his job to "do" anything for baseball. (But, as I'll mention later, I disagree with that statement anyway. He was great for baseball.)

Secondly, he could have made much more money than he did by not spending it on players. Are you aware that the Yankees are one of the MLB teams that usually loses money in their annual P&L? He simply took the Revenue available to him (Tickets, Parking, Concessions, TV money, etc.) and plowed it back into HIS TEAM!

Thirdly, he didn't have to have all the "great players," but he did have a deep seated desire to win. Doing so involves spending money, and taking chances on the better players. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. But he never accepted complacency. He ate the bad contracts and moved on to the next one. The owners you should be pissed about (too many to list, but use Tom Hicks of Texas and the Wrigley Corp as examples) are the ones who don't care if they win. When the Marlins won the World Series in 2003, the Yankees paid about $11 million in Luxury Tax. Several million of that went to the Florida Marlins. What did they do with it? They flew ALL of their front office staff and families to NYC for the games, put them up in The Plaza, partied for days, won the World Series, went home, pleaded poverty, and broke up the team. They didn't re-sign a player. They didn't go get a free agent to help.

Lastly, and I don't understand people who don't get this one, since the revenue is there (estimated at over $600 million to the Yankees last year) If George doesn't give it to the players, who should it go to?


During Steinbrenner's time with the Yankees, they have been outstanding. And they have been awful. He never tolerated awful. Forcing them to be good again has been very good for baseball. The Red Sox got good in the last 10 years because they finally got an owner that really wanted to win. That rivalry is GREAT for baseball.

[calvindog]

I grew up hating the Yankees and Steinbrenner; however, I was always envious of the team for having him as an owner. The man wanted to win more than any owner in professional sports and if you were a Yankee fan you reaped the benefits of that singular mindset.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I grew up hating the Yankees and Steinbrenner; however, I was always envious of the team for having him as an owner. The man wanted to win more than any owner in professional sports and if you were a Yankee fan you reaped the benefits of that singular mindset.

Not as much as the Cavs owner claims he wants to win.

[dstudeba]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

Lastly, and I don't understand people who don't get this one, since the revenue is there (estimated at over $600 million to the Yankees last year) If George doesn't give it to the players, who should it go to?

It should go to George and the other Yankee owners, they are the ones who took the risk and they should reap the rewards. Because George chooses to spend his money on players doesn't mean it is a prudent business decision for other owners.

Condolences to his family; his baseball field at Williams College is beautiful.

[David Atkatz]

Took the risk?

He invested $160,000 of his own money.

[dstudeba]

I am sorry David but I fail to see your point, could you please clarify it?

[Frank A]

Well JIM BV, I can see your a Yankee fan. Never said he couldn't invest, nor did I say he was Comish. Said he was a greedy pig, and he was. Sick of hearing how much he did for baseball. Sorry but he did nothing. He made the Yankees a winner by spending a fortune that he made being in the biggest sports market in the world, NY. Don't lay that crap on me that the Yankees don't make any money. That is a complete joke.

[packs]

Originally Posted by Frank A

Well JIM BV, I can see your a Yankee fan. Never said he couldn't invest, nor did I say he was Comish. Said he was a greedy pig, and he was. Sick of hearing how much he did for baseball. Sorry but he did nothing. He made the Yankees a winner by spending a fortune that he made being in the biggest sports market in the world, NY. Don't lay that crap on me that the Yankees don't make any money. That is a complete joke.

How was he a greedy pig? You're making it seems like all baseball owners want to win a World Series. They all have the money, otherwise they wouldn't own a baseball team. But a lot of owners aren't fans, they're businessmen. So they don't want to spend it. You're not considering the fact that a lot of owners or owners groups don't care. That's not George's fault. He wanted to win. I don't think anyone ever doubted George was a fan, which is what made him such a great owner.

[Jim VB]

Frank,

Regardless of what team I'm a fan of, you should probably stay off of public message boards until you know what you're talking about.

You said he was greedy and your proof is that he spends too much money. You're not smart enough to see that those two statements fly against each other.

You also don't seem to be able to distinguish between a bottom line profit and an increase in net value. I probably can't fix that for you here. Maybe you can find a fine Ivy League School to help you out.

You said he hasn't done anything for baseball. That's clearly wrong. Even Red Sox fans will tell you that he has inspired their ownership to be better. MLB has never been stronger, financially and fan-wise than it is right now. Teams that are doing poorly are their own worst enemy.

Yes, he benefited by being in the biggest sports market in the world. But they were in that same market for 10 years when CBS owned them and they were a disaster. George fixed that.

There are many, many, things that you could have hated Steinbrenner for. He was a jerk. He was a bully. He was an ass to work for. He dated Barbara Walters. But you didn't pick one of those. You picked greedy. Wanting to win isn't the definition of greedy. If he was greedy he would have sold the team. His group bought them for less than $10 million (As David pointed out, George's share was rumored to be around $160,000.) Today, estimates are they could be sold for over $1.5 billion. Now if he sold them, that would have been greedy.

Finally, the team is privately held, so they don't have to release their P&L to the public, butthey do have to release it to MLB. And yes, they lose money almost every year.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by dstudeba

I am sorry David but I fail to see your point, could you please clarify it?

I believe David's point is that Steinbrenner put up almost none of his own money when he bought the team.

[nolemmings]

I've been a Yankee fan for 45 years, and was almost embarrassed to say so during the first ten years of Steinbrenner's regime. He is associated with leading the free agency spending that completely changed the baseball landscape, and that association is valid. Still, as time passed, I came to realize that if not George, another would have stepped forward and started the spending orgy. Being first and brashest made him a poster boy for those unhappy with the way baseball operates. I get that, but again, it was inevitable.

BTW--sorry, I don't believe the Yankees lose money. For years anyway, and maybe still, they played the shell game of not counting the money they receive from their interest in the YES network in their bottom line--at least the bottom line they gave to MLB. Not chump change by any stretch--hell, their RADIO revenue was larger than many teams' TV cash.

[dstudeba]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I believe David's point is that Steinbrenner put up almost none of his own money when he bought the team.

Thanks Peter, however I believe my point is still valid. George and the other owners took the risk be it through cash, credit, leases, player contracts, employees, and a myriad of other liabilities that they were on the hook for.