lelands and his type auctions should be made illegal

sflayank · #1 07-10-2010, 08:43 AM

thats 100 incorrect..no sour grapes here
i received email at 413 am saying i was outbid and the auction closed according to net54 post at 413 am
so they didnt want to sell at that price
ill bet every card i own that that lot went to a friend of the auction house..i just happened to get outbid at the second it closed? so if that person would have waited 1 minute longer i would have won it?
i dont think so...i was willing to pay $8500 + the buyers and it went for 4500 + the buyers
so who got screwed... i would say the consignor
i would also be willing to bet that this item appears in another auction house within 1 year...that prediction has come true so many times its laughable....if u ask y i didnt put in 8500 when i went to sleep...because unquestionably i would have woke up and won it for 8500 because of shill bidding...thats why allowing bids past the increment should be outlawed

Leon · #2 07-10-2010, 08:48 AM

So if you wanted it that badly why didn't you just stay up and bid or ask for a call in bid? I do understand your concern about shilling as it's rampant in the hobby. I have bid in 100's of auctions and never had an issue as you had. If I want to bid more, I do. It's really that simple. As far as "outlawing" some form of bidding......sure. To me that is an insane statement. But you are certainly allowed your opinion. I am sure my opinion seems crazy to you

.

perezfan · #3 07-10-2010, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sflayank

thats 100 incorrect..no sour grapes here
i received email at 413 am saying i was outbid and the auction closed according to net54 post at 413 am
so they didnt want to sell at that price
ill bet every card i own that that lot went to a friend of the auction house..i just happened to get outbid at the second it closed? so if that person would have waited 1 minute longer i would have won it?
i dont think so...i was willing to pay $8500 + the buyers and it went for 4500 + the buyers
so who got screwed... i would say the consignor
i would also be willing to bet that this item appears in another auction house within 1 year...that prediction has come true so many times its laughable....if u ask y i didnt put in 8500 when i went to sleep...because unquestionably i would have woke up and won it for 8500 because of shill bidding...thats why allowing bids past the increment should be outlawed

The auction went well past 4:13 AM. I was outbid on an item around 4:30. My initial post occurred while other lots were still going. I won mine early, because there were no competing bidders. Per Lelands' rules, if there is only one bidder at the time of the initial closing, the lot is closed.

I believe that the auction closed to ALL lots around 4:45 EDT. I also believe that whoever outbid you was not a shill bid, but a calculated bid from a real person who wanted the item as much as you did.

If Lelands' format was the same as Huggins & Scott's, that other bidder simply would have bid within the earlier parameters. You would have been outbid regardless. Perhaps you would have had more time to counter-bid, but the price would have been driven up either way.

With regard to ceiling bids... I have won many items with Lelands for less than my top bid. But I do understand people's hesitance to leave a ceiling bid, given the corruption and some of the shady people within this hobby.

Neither format is perfect... I have been frustrated many times by the Legendary/H & S system, where I am outbid and cannot jump to another lot (because it has closed). In my case alone, this has cost consignors thousands of dollars. I can't even imagine how much money has been left on the table, given the wider scope.

Rob D. · #4 07-10-2010, 12:16 PM

The simple truth is one can point to any auction format and say it is costing consignors money.

All the lots close at once? I won't stay up until the early morning. It cost the consignor money.

Lots close individually? I got outbid on an item late and couldn't go back and bid on other lots. It cost the consignor money.

The auction house accepts ceiling bids? I won't do that for fear of being shilled. It cost the consignor money.

It's a live auction and I need to place my bid by phone? That's too inconvenient. It cost the consignor money.

The auction house picks a time when the auction closes? Ridiculous and too undefined. It cost the consignor money.

The bottom line is that no system pleases everyone. I didn't even know Lelands had an auction that ended last night, and while looking online at the catalog today I saw an Indians item that I would have paid at least twice the amount it sold for. I guess by not making sure I knew about the auction, Lelands cost the consignor money.

barrysloate · #5 07-10-2010, 12:34 PM

What Rob said...and I'm raising my hand for crabs.

Let me also add that in almost every auction I ever ran, I would receive a call the day after it closed by some confused bidder who forgot all about it (even though he received at least several email reminders in the final 48 hours). He would ask what lot so and so went for, and when I told him his response was always guaranteed to be along the lines of "that went so cheap, I would have gone much higher than that." There is always someone who wanted something really badly but couldn't manage to make note of the closing time. Not exactly the same situation as here, but along the lines of the day after bidder.

rhettyeakley · #6 07-10-2010, 12:44 PM

I agree that some of these auctions are getting a bt ridiculous, I was also outbid on the lot I was going after at around 4am ET but I guess that is life. I guess I'm not sure why the bidders are waiting until 4am to throw out bids, and I'm not really sure what a solution would be but it just seems to get later and later (or earlier and earlier) with every passing auction. I prefer the all lots end at the same time format as I can re-allocate funds if I'm going after many potential items, but when I'm going after a single lot I love the individual lots ending (Seriously, these auction houses should call me and see which one I want and end it that way!

).
-Rhett

barrysloate · #7 07-10-2010, 01:06 PM

Rhett- bidders wait until 4:00 AM for a simple reason: they know they can, and nothing at all compels them to bid sooner. They wait eight hours after the so-called close before they even start to bid. I have discussed many times that it is a flaw in the system (but nobody listens). If the auction house told bidders that they would be closing at midnight no matter what (even if they were prepared to go later) every bidder would get his bids in early, and not a nickel would be lost. But like I said, nobody needs to bid early so nobody does.

whitey19thcentury · #8 07-10-2010, 01:36 PM

I am with Rhett....this whole late night/early morning thing is getting a bit ridiculous. When I went to bed (1:30 am-ish), I was the high bidder of 7 lots. The two I wanted badly I put really high bids in.

I got in today, and low and behold, I was outbid on several lots, with emails coming from between 2:30- 4:00 am

I don't have a problem with Leland's, because I have gotten many, many good deals over the years, but something has to be done with an auction ending at 4:30 am, especially since many bidders have a life. I get up between 5 and 6 am most days, including weekends for my business.