Informal Hall of Fame Opinion Poll

[esehombre]

Loved the picture of Don Sutton--that is perfect!
Substitute him for Dick Lundy

Rhett,

Which of the 37 HOF Negro League players would you get rid of?

[slantycouch]

Originally Posted by esehombre

Loved the picture of Don Sutton--that is perfect!
Substitute him for Dick Lundy

Wow - nice call!

[Robextend]

A little more on Ted Simmons from the www.thebaseballpage.com

I know he is very debatable, but how could he have left the ballot after only 1 year? I think the BBWAA seriously disrespected Simmons.

A grassroots campaign to get Ted Simmons inducted into the Hall of Fame has rarely drawn much attention. The switch-hitting catcher spent 21 years in the big leagues, and retired with more RBI than Johnny Bench, more runs scored than Gary Carter, more hits than Carlton Fisk, and a higher batting average than Yogi Berra. But his longevity has not obscured the fact that he was considered a mediocre defensive catcher, against whom baserunners frequently ran wild. With the stick however, Simmons accumulated 2,472 hits, the highest figure by a player who was primarily a catcher. He hit .300 seven times, and was frequently among league leaders in hits, doubles, and intentional walks.

"All you ever hear is Bench and Munson and Fisk. Nobody ever talks about Simmons. He's the most underrated catcher. He's never got the recognition he deserves. But where can you find a catcher that can do all the things Simmons can do? He hits better than any of them, and he calls a great game. And who else in the league can catch as many games as he does?" — Pittsburgh manager Chuck Tanner on St. Louis catcher Ted Simmons, 1978

[tiger8mush]

Mike Piazza was a great batting catcher (0.300+ career hitter, ROY, 12 time all-star) who wasn't good defensively. Will he be a HOFer?

Rob

[Mark]

After you guys vote out Maz, I would use my vote to bounce Blyleven and put Bill back in. Maz was an elite player on defense, and that counts for something sometimes. If you won't let me do that, I'd drop Chick Hafey and add Larry Doyle.

[Beatles Guy]

Originally Posted by Robextend

A little more on Ted Simmons from the www.thebaseballpage.com

I know he is very debatable, but how could he have left the ballot after only 1 year? I think the BBWAA seriously disrespected Simmons.

A grassroots campaign to get Ted Simmons inducted into the Hall of Fame has rarely drawn much attention. The switch-hitting catcher spent 21 years in the big leagues, and retired with more RBI than Johnny Bench, more runs scored than Gary Carter, more hits than Carlton Fisk, and a higher batting average than Yogi Berra. But his longevity has not obscured the fact that he was considered a mediocre defensive catcher, against whom baserunners frequently ran wild. With the stick however, Simmons accumulated 2,472 hits, the highest figure by a player who was primarily a catcher. He hit .300 seven times, and was frequently among league leaders in hits, doubles, and intentional walks.

"All you ever hear is Bench and Munson and Fisk. Nobody ever talks about Simmons. He's the most underrated catcher. He's never got the recognition he deserves. But where can you find a catcher that can do all the things Simmons can do? He hits better than any of them, and he calls a great game. And who else in the league can catch as many games as he does?" — Pittsburgh manager Chuck Tanner on St. Louis catcher Ted Simmons, 1978

Simmons had a subpar fielding percentage, but his "caught stealing" percentage was just barely below Carter. As I've said before, it's a total shaft job. Playing for mostly crappy Cardinal teams of the 70's and then with the Brewers really hurt him, even with the Brewers going to the series in '82.

[Theoldprofessor]

Out: Elmer Flick What kind of name is that for a HOFer?

Jim Rice Erase one outstanding season (1976) and here's an ordinary player/DH who worked his way up the voting ladder. If one season gets you in, make way for Norm Cash. In mainly because the Boston crowd got what it wanted. Again.

In: Bill Madlock -- Lifetime .305 hitter, four batting championships

Al Oliver -- A batting championship, lifetime .303 hitter and 2700 hits.

Dale Murphy -- Dominant NL player in the '80s. Two MVPs, back to back. 398 homers Low overall average due to hanging on too long.

All three played for some bad (though not terrible) teams, out of the NY _ Boston corridor. And one who didn't ...

Gil Hodges On a team that featured some exceptional ballplayers (e.g. Reese, Robinson, Campy, Newk, Snider), Hodges was the one that nobody playing the Bums wanted to see in a clutch at bat. Managed the sorry Mets to a World Championship. And a guy who played the game the way it ought to be played, and lived his life the same way. The Hall ought to join him!

[Section103]

Im going with my heart over my head, but I'd put in Will Clark. If nothing else, I would have loved to see him last more than just one year on the ballot. He meant sooooo much to the city of SF and Giants fans.

And Ive only browsed through this thread, but I expected to see more comments for Ron Santo (where are the diehard Cubie fans?)

[steve B]

His big year was actually 1978, and Rice was far btter than just that one season. In 75 he had similar stats to Lynn .309/22/102 vs .331/21/105 but got hurt late in the year and missed the postseason.
During a good part of his career he was an impressive hitter, a couple homers he hit that I saw in person left the park quicker than any I've seen. And he's one of the very few to get one out of fenway to the right of the flagpole.

One thing that gets missed is that his last 3 years or so he had vision problems, but was too stubborn to wear glasses. After finally getting a pair after taking a eating in the press about how he needed them, they made fun of how they looked (yeah, the ones he picked were a poor choice) So he stopped wearing them.

He suffered in HOF balloting because he wasn't all that media friendly. And like it or not, if a guy is borderline in any way it comes down to a popularity with the press contest. He took a lot of knocks for being a bad fielder - Who isn't a bad fielder in Fenways LF?- and for grounding into far too many doubleplays. But by the middle part of his career, he was an ok if not great fielder, and while he's 6th all time in GIDP he's in some excellent company there. http://www.baseball-reference.com/le...P_career.shtml
He was also one of at least 3 players that were treated horribly by the owners in 89-90 and his reaction to being disinvited to spring training- basically being cut before the season ended - didn't win any friends witht he press either.

A quote from wikipedia sums it up nicely "Rice could hit for both power and average, and currently only nine other retired players rank ahead of him in both career home runs and batting average: Hank Aaron, Jimmie Foxx, Lou Gehrig, Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays, Stan Musial, Mel Ott, Babe Ruth and Ted Williams"

Steve B

Originally Posted by Theoldprofessor

Out: Elmer Flick What kind of name is that for a HOFer?

Jim Rice Erase one outstanding season (1976) and here's an ordinary player/DH who worked his way up the voting ladder. If one season gets you in, make way for Norm Cash. In mainly because the Boston crowd got what it wanted. Again.

In: Bill Madlock -- Lifetime .305 hitter, four batting championships

Al Oliver -- A batting championship, lifetime .303 hitter and 2700 hits.

Dale Murphy -- Dominant NL player in the '80s. Two MVPs, back to back. 398 homers Low overall average due to hanging on too long.

All three played for some bad (though not terrible) teams, out of the NY _ Boston corridor. And one who didn't ...

Gil Hodges On a team that featured some exceptional ballplayers (e.g. Reese, Robinson, Campy, Newk, Snider), Hodges was the one that nobody playing the Bums wanted to see in a clutch at bat. Managed the sorry Mets to a World Championship. And a guy who played the game the way it ought to be played, and lived his life the same way. The Hall ought to join him!

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Theoldprofessor

Out: Elmer Flick What kind of name is that for a HOFer?

Jim Rice Erase one outstanding season (1976) and here's an ordinary player/DH who worked his way up the voting ladder. If one season gets you in, make way for Norm Cash. In mainly because the Boston crowd got what it wanted. Again.

In: Bill Madlock -- Lifetime .305 hitter, four batting championships

Al Oliver -- A batting championship, lifetime .303 hitter and 2700 hits.

Dale Murphy -- Dominant NL player in the '80s. Two MVPs, back to back. 398 homers Low overall average due to hanging on too long.

All three played for some bad (though not terrible) teams, out of the NY _ Boston corridor. And one who didn't ...

Gil Hodges On a team that featured some exceptional ballplayers (e.g. Reese, Robinson, Campy, Newk, Snider), Hodges was the one that nobody playing the Bums wanted to see in a clutch at bat. Managed the sorry Mets to a World Championship. And a guy who played the game the way it ought to be played, and lived his life the same way. The Hall ought to join him!

Wow. I still don't get the hate Jim Rice gets and I'm a Yankees fan.

..............and then you throw in Bill Madlock because of the batting titles?

Rice had almost as high of a lifetime batting average, finished top 5 in the MVP voting six times. HR leader 3 times, RBI leader twice, 4 seasons of 200 or more hits.

Rice was a very competent Left Fielder, especially when he got a chance to do it every day after Yaz retired. He's 3rd All-Time in assists from a Left Fielder since they started tracking it, behind only Bonds and Yaz.

Madlock never finished in the top 5 MVP. Never had 200 hits. Not even close, which is shocking for a 4-time batting title winner. Never had 100 RBI's, never had 100 Runs scored. Guy was barely an everyday player.

[mr2686]

Madlock was barely an everyday player? Huh? Twice with over 600 PA's, 8 times with over 500 PA's, and 4 times with over 400 PA's. That's quite a slacker.