VCP or SMR?

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by Wesley

So VCP is unable to record price data from fixed price listings? That is a shame, since these types of sales make up such a large percentage of transactions on ebay.

If VCP can somehow figure out a way to get around this, it should try to post all the information available, and not be selective.

I'm not sure why this information is so important. Most fixed price listings are overpriced anyway and are purchased by those who don't want to be patient and wait for an auction.

If the card is so rare that there is no information on VCP, Then I don't know how one fixed price sale can help determine the market value.

[HRBAKER]

SMR = Pravda

[Bicem]

Originally Posted by Matthew H

I'm not sure why this information is so important. Most fixed price listings are overpriced anyway and are purchased by those who don't want to be patient and wait for an auction.

If the card is so rare that there is no information on VCP, Then I don't know how one fixed price sale can help determine the market value.

a sale is a sale... and all sale info should be reported to get an accurate idea of the market value of a card. if you only report selective data... that is not a true idea of market value.

[Myachelydra]

Originally Posted by Bicem

a sale is a sale... and all sale info should be reported to get an accurate idea of the market value of a card. if you only report selective data... that is not a true idea of market value.

Agreed. "Overpriced" is subjective.

[Matt]

Sociologically, it's always fascinating to me how people are much quicker to respond critically to a post then to read it carefully.

[jmk59]

Originally Posted by Matthew H

I'm not sure why this information is so important. Most fixed price listings are overpriced anyway and are purchased by those who don't want to be patient and wait for an auction.

If the card is so rare that there is no information on VCP, Then I don't know how one fixed price sale can help determine the market value.

It's not one fixed-price sale. It's lots of fixed-price sales. And it doesn't really matter why someone BIN'd an overpriced sale - impatience or whatever. That's as totally legitimate a data point as when someone that patiently shops, snipes, and wins classic ebay auctions.

Omitting fixed-price sales definitely skew the numbers. Many hobbyists are using online pricing services to draw a line in the sand and say "not a penny more" when they buy cards. This affects the market by putting a damper on prices because many subscribers believe that online pricing numbers reflect "true market". The more true market transactions left out, the less "true market" the numbers become. But people mistakenly rely on them.

I'm curious too as to where the line is drawn in price reporting. I had always understood that it was auction only and used that info as part of my overall thinking in a transaction. But I think somewhere Bobby said/mentioned that they now include fixed-price sales, so I also am interested if this has changed.

To me, if it's a reliable number, it should be reported if the electronic gathering process is reasonable as to burden (on VCP, cardpricer, etc) and reliability (not subject to widespread manipulation by parties to the reported transactions).

Joann

PS - Rich Klein's post above about the difference between SMR and online price guides is completely awesome. What a great distillation of the issue. I wish more people would take the "sophisticated collector" audience of the online guides to heart, understand the responsibility to interpret the reports, and not take the numbers as hard fast gospel on exact value. Nice post Rich!

[Wesley]

Originally Posted by Matthew H

I'm not sure why this information is so important. Most fixed price listings are overpriced anyway and are purchased by those who don't want to be patient and wait for an auction.

If the card is so rare that there is no information on VCP, Then I don't know how one fixed price sale can help determine the market value.

You would rather have no information for rare cards than information for fixed price sales?

Most people would rather have more information available at their hands. They can then take that information and weigh the information as they deem appropriate.

[3-2-count]

Originally Posted by Matthew H

I'm not sure why this information is so important. Most fixed price listings are overpriced anyway and are purchased by those who don't want to be patient and wait for an auction.

If the card is so rare that there is no information on VCP, Then I don't know how one fixed price sale can help determine the market value.

Matthew. This information is very important because the sole purpose of VCP is to record all sales of cards at auction. That's what the subscriber pays for. If their data is missing fixed priced auction items it's not an accurate level. I have purchased many cards at the fixed price level which were not over priced as I'm sure many on here have as well. Those transactions need to be included on VCP and not held hostage with those items that are outrageously listed. Those so called overpriced examples, (yes, there is alot of them) won't be selling anyway so your only keeping out the fair fixed priced BIN's that are actually turning in the market. Bobby if your listening, how doesn't this make sense??

[HRBAKER]

A sale is a sale, whether it may be a "overpriced" BIN or not. VCP users are fairly astute I would think. The site offers detail about what transactions comprise the "composite" average for a certain card right? If you have a card that is routinely trading the 5-600$ range and there is one BIN transaction for $1500 that skews the average most collectors/buyers will discount the legitimacy of that while formulating their buy price, but it is still a legitimate transaction and needs to be reported. The site does need to make very clear the difference between ebay auctions and BINS. To a much smaller extent don't we already do this when we back out the Buyer's Premium from the auction house's reported sales?

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by 3-2-count

Matthew. This information is very important because the sole purpose of VCP is to record all sales of cards at auction. That's what the subscriber pays for. If their data is missing fixed priced auction items it's not an accurate level. I have purchased many cards at the fixed price level which were not over priced as I'm sure many on here have as well. Those transactions need to be included on VCP and not held hostage with those items that are outrageously listed. Those so called overpriced examples, (yes, there is alot of them) won't be selling anyway so your only keeping out the fair fixed priced BIN's that are actually turning in the market. Bobby if your listening, how doesn't this make sense??

I guess your right, I was just stating my opinion. I have hit the BIN too when I see a fair price. I usually knew the price was fair because it resembled previous auctions or whats current on VCP. The BINs either resemble SMR, VCP, completed listings or are overpriced. I personally don't care. To me the most important info is in there.

[3-2-count]

Originally Posted by Matthew H

I personally don't care. To me the most important info is in there.

Just not all of it though. Bobby, feel free to jump in.

[cfc1909]

I think you are right on and you are not getting accurate info or you moneys worth if all the info isn't there.

If you are going to offer a service for a premium you need to be through.

Bobby -listen to you customers, its good buisness.

[dstudeba]

Originally Posted by Matthew H

I guess your right, I was just stating my opinion. I have hit the BIN too when I see a fair price. I usually knew the price was fair because it resembled previous auctions or whats current on VCP. The BINs either resemble SMR, VCP, completed listings or are overpriced. I personally don't care. To me the most important info is in there.

But is the most important info there? I think VCP is very helpful, but how much of the market is it reporting? It isn't reporting raw or groups already. We can make general blanket statements about overpriced BINs because it is and easy target, but do we have know what percentage of single card graded sales are BINs? If it is 10% then I am OK with VCP, if it is 50% I have serious concerns. I have no idea what percentage of sales it is actually reporting, and this fact worries me.

[Matthew H]

I'm ok as long as they report the net54 B/S/T sales

[3-2-count]

Originally Posted by Matthew H

I'm ok as long as they report the net54 B/S/T sales

Now that's a must!!

[Matt]

Can someone point me to the post where Bobby said they don't record fixed price/BIN sales?